015: Countering Marriage Myths

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Dave Schramm 
00:04

On today's episode Liz and, I have a great conversation with Richard and Linda Eyre. We discussed principles from their latest book The eight myths of marriage, as well as relationship truths that dispel some of these common myths. Richard and Linda Eyre are the parents of nine children and are among the most popular speakers in the world on parenting and families. They have presented in more than 45 countries and are New York Times best selling authors of numerous books on parenting, couples, and families. The Eyre's have been frequent guests on national network shows including Oprah, the Today Show, primetime live, 60 minutes, Good Morning America, and once had regular segments on the CBS Early Show. Their parenting website, valuesparenting.com, provides ideas, guidance and creative programs for families throughout the world. We hope you enjoy the show.

Richard Eyre  00:58

Welcome to stronger marriage connection. I'm Dr. Liz Hale clinical psychologist along with the esteemed professor Dr. Dave Schramm. Together we are dedicating our life's work to bringing you the best we have and valid marital research along with a few tips and tools on how to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Today we have special guests in the house New York Times number one bestselling authors Richard and Linda Eyre. I think actually they are Utah's most famous couple, as they certainly are to me. After 50 years of their own beautiful marriage, they discuss many marital Myths and Truths of a fulfilling marriage and their latest book The eight myths of marriage, it is a must read whether you are considering marriage or nurturing your marriage of many years. Richard and Linda, welcome to stronger marriage connection.

Linda Eyre  01:48

Thank you for having us. This is one of our favorite topics. This will be so great. And talking to you two pros on this is especially fun for us.

Richard Eyre  01:56

I'm laughing anyway, you said Liz, Utah's most famous couple. I don't think so. But I will tell you something interesting. When I'm by myself out and about hardly anyone you know, says anything or recognizes me when I'm with her, I'm suddenly famous. I can believe that, we have our first question for you, Richard, Linda, is what took you so long to write a book on marriage? I've got a good answer for that, you know, marriage is harder than parenting. Indeed. Our Publisher would ask us that all the time. They're like Richard Linda, this is your 14th parenting book? When are you going to do one on marriage? Our standard answer was, when we figure it out. So honest. But you know, something interesting, and you guys know this through your own data and research, but just in our personal experience, the stronger your marriage is, the stronger your parenting will be. That's always predictable. As a marriage improves, the parenting always improves. It unfortunately doesn't work the other way. We ran into so many couples who are really good parents, and they're putting in the effort, and the time and the research and the the mental energy, but as their parenting gets better their marriage can actually get worse. It happens that way many times.

Linda Eyre  03:24

We've asked a lot of audiences. How many of you, feel like you spend as much time parenting as you do marriaging? Where do you put the most effort? And where's your mind? And inevitably, it's on parenting. They're just trying to survive, we get that, right? All of us. It's so hard.

Richard Eyre  03:46

I'm glad Linda mentioned that. Because that actually was the impetus for finally getting us off of dead center and writing a marriage book is that we would that we would always ask that at the beginning of lectures. And we'd ask a second question. We first say, where do you think you're putting the most time and effort on your marriage or on your parenting? About 85% admitted that it was that it was parenting? And the next question was, is that a problem? And people recognize that it's a problem? Yeah, it is a problem. You know, They just don't know what to do about it. Right? They just don't know what to do. Exactly. And something about parenting. It's, it's sort of, I mean, think about the words, right? Parenting is a verb, it's a skill, you learn. It hears, it's an art, it's a science. Here's a book, here's a manual. We don't say maraging. Maybe we should I mean, that's part a little thing we put on the title of, of this marriaging book is making marriage a verb and replacing myth with truth. And then, you know, we didn't call it the eight myths of marriage, the 8 myths of maraging, because we need to learn to make this a verb and a skill that we work on. Not just something, Oh yeah, we're married. But what, it's not a static thing?

Dave Schramm  05:03

Yeah, I love that maraging I love that you guys have tackled so many myths, because there's so many myths out there. As you clearly know, the problem with myths is that they cause us to see ourselves in the world unrealistically. So what else is problematic with myths that go unchanged?

Richard Eyre  05:22

Well, I mean, you hit it right on the nail, Dave. If you if you believe something that's not true, you're going to have endless problems. But I don't think there's any area that I can think of any subject matter any facet of life that has more myths in it than marriage. I mean, no one has corrected these things. You know, I mean, people think things about marriage, which are not only not true, they're exactly opposite and backwards from the truth. Such as, we should measure our marriage by how alike we are and how seldomly we disagree. Well, that's just not true.

Linda Eyre  06:04

I would just say, we have asked so many people before they got married, you know, would you like to clone? Would you like to clone yourself? Or do you want to marry somebody who's a clone? And they, they say no, but when they get right into the nitty gritty, they think, Gosh, this guy was only so much more like I was, we could do so much better. So I think that is really a big deal. When they first get married.

Richard Eyre  06:35

I think you're right. So many times, I think if we just thought the same, if In other words, he thought like me, right? Life would go so much easier. And yet when it comes right down to it, that would make for very uninteresting, boring, unhappy life, I love that you used the word boring.

Linda Eyre  06:55

He does this all the time. I keep saying well, I know, I know, some couples that don't argue all the time. And, you know, they just they just live a smoother life. They just you know, and his response is always "boring!".

Richard Eyre  07:09

I don't mind a good I don't mind a good tussle now and then right. I don't mind a good debate. Well, you know, I mean, I'm a little too prone toward athletic metaphors. But you know, we're going to be watching these jazz tonight, I wouldn't want the point guard to do the same things as the center. I mean, come on, we need to bring synergy, by definition cannot exist between two things that are the same.

Linda Eyre  07:35

I think when people are dating, you know, they think to themselves, how much alike is this person? How much is he like? I mean, maybe hes not enough like me. And I think that's the wrong thing to be looking for. You really need to be thinking, What can this person bring to the relationship? That I don't have? You know?

Richard Eyre  07:57

Yeah, exactly. So that's the truth. That's the truth of the clone myth, and right is finding someone. That's what we tried to do in the book, even in the table of contents, because the main reason for talking about a myth is to correct it and to replace it with the truth, right. So in our minds, it's this binary thing. You've got the myth and you've got the truth. Can you move from this side to this side, and, you know, and that forced us to try to simplify it and get it down to something pithy. So the truth, some of the best and most exciting marriages are between two strong individuals who relish, rather than resent their differences. Who each have their own unique opinions and can disagree and debate and learn from each other. So how you resolve is a better measure than how often you need to resolve. And, again, no one's pushing for a well, let me say another thing that's really important here, the problem, even beyond the fact that it's a myth, is that people believe it and beat themselves up unnecessarily because they think they're failing. And, I mean you two know better than I, What is worse for a marriage than for a couple to think they're failing? Then no matter what you say to them, they're like, Yeah, but we don't agree on anything. We're failing. And you can't find any positive traction because someone has planted in their mind, this unrealistic idea of always agreeing with each other.

Dave Schramm  09:34

We'll be right back after this brief message. And we're back. Let's dive right in. You know, another myth that caught our eyes. We're looking at your book is this no waves myth you say it's a concern to smooth over the rough edges. That You know, to give our marriage this text this grid this character, so it's a great description. How are our waves good for marriage?

Richard Eyre  10:07

Well, I mean, it's like, this is sort of pushing the metaphor to a crazy point. But if you have water, and since we're talking about waves, what happens to a stagnant pond? What happens where there is no motion? There is no waves, right? You get, you get all kinds of bad things growing in that pond. The waves are what clears it out, refreshes, it gives it new vitality.

Linda Eyre  10:33

I think when we were doing this, we were thinking, you know, it's so easy when you're angry at your spouse to just leave it because you realize, you know, it's just gonna be a big argument and just leave it alone. Just don't say anything. And we have found that just never works. Because unexpressed feelings never die. They just get buried and come forth later, in uglier forms, quote from Stephen Covey. We have truly believed that. I mean, I tried burying things, and it does just get bigger and bigger. And then the next time something that happens, like, there he goes, again. You've got to talk about it. It is so important.

Richard Eyre  11:16

We were just you know, Stephen Covey, was our, he was my personal mentor before we were married. I mean, he was my, I think, is probably the greatest mentor I've ever had in my life. And it became Linda's too, after we got married. But we were just talking about him the other day, because his oldest daughter finished a book that he had started before he died. And it's this brilliant book called "living life in crescendo" is getting greater all the time. But we were thinking about Stephen the other day, and I remember clearly, this was right after our marriage, we'd gone to him for advice. There's nothing greater than having a mentor, you can just ask a blanket quick. Tell us how, you know, here we are, we've been married for three weeks, give us give us the secret, you know, and I'll never forget him just looking right at us and saying I'm gonna give you two cliches. Pick the one you like best, because you can't choose both of them. And the first one was, some things are better left unsaid. And we're both kind of nodding our head like Well, that's pretty obvious, you know. And then he says, and here's the other one, unexpressed feelings never die, they just come forth later and uglier forms. He says, You got to pick between those two, you can't believe them both. And we really got the message that the waves, when you choose the waves, you're choosing to progress and you're choosing to, you know, tackle this problem. Rather than gloss it over. Some things are better left, and hey, let's just not go. Let's agree to disagree. Which by the way, I think Dave and Liz, is a great philosophy in business or in most relationships in life, but it's fatal in marriage. Not marriage though.

Linda Eyre  13:07

We disagree on some things. We don't have to go into that, but I do have to say that we got some horrible marriage advice when we got married. The guy who married us, he's passed on now so I can say this. We went to his home and he said, This is my advice to you, never go to bed with angry feelings. Never go to bed when you are really angry at each other, just work it out. So we took that to heart.

Richard Eyre  13:38

He actually said it kind of poetically, I remember he said, Never let the sun set on a disagreement. Like it was a poem or something, you know.

Linda Eyre  13:46

So we took that the mean, never let the sun rise without.

Richard Eyre  13:53

We got no sleep the first half year.

Linda Eyre  13:56

We spent all night and then we just got angrier and angrier and tired, more tired. It was crazy. And it took us several years to figure out that, that was just not good advice, go sleep on it. And it's gonna look a lot better in the morning.

Richard Eyre  14:12

You know what we did though, we modified it and it was the greatest sort of early marriage decision we ever made, which was we said, let's alter that to say, never let the week end on an unresolved disagreement. So we're gonna have these things. We still do it actually called Sunday sessions, where we're catching up and we're not, we often call it a testimony meeting or a beliefs meeting where it feelings and you're in a nice mood. Maybe you even had a prayer, we usually have a prayer before we start ours and in that atmosphere, you can say by the way last Thursday, you did hurt my feelings and I'm still thinking about it a little and I hope we can resolve it now. So not every day but every week.

Linda Eyre  14:57

That's sometimes when that does come up it's really hard to leave it until the next week. We can argue all day, but all night is not a good idea.

Richard Eyre  15:07

Right. So it's good practice it sounds like you think, Richard and Linda, to table it, table it for the Sunday Session.

Linda Eyre  15:15

I mean, if it's not urgent, right at this moment, it has to do with a child that needs something right now disagreeing on what, how we should do it. But if it can, if you can table it just do it.

Richard Eyre  15:25

like that Liz, table it or, we have one author we like that says, go to the balcony, just you know, step out on the balcony for a minute and get a new perspective. Or go change your clothes or go take the garbage out. Just do something. Yeah, I'm out. You come back and resume when you're feeling a little better. Yeah, we can still get along right? And go about marriage, even when this thing is been shelved for later review. Right? That really takes practice, doesn't it? I think Covey's point was, don't leave it on a shelf so long, that it starts to morph into something ugly. You know, most marriage couples we talked to, we say, you ever remember a time when you were really mad and you tabled it. And after a while. You could remember you were mad, but you couldn't remember what on earth you were mad about. And so sometimes they're such little things, you don't care if they fall off the shelf. But if it is something significant, don't let it completely mellow out, get it off the shelf while it's still alive, you know?

Linda Eyre  16:33

But the bottom line is really, no waves is just not a good idea. Just go for it, make the waves do what you have to to make things work and so that you can feel.

Richard Eyre  16:43

Richard and Linda, this is why you wrote the book and why we desperately needed you to write this book after 50 years of marriage. Another myth we won't be able to go through all eight. But those that caught us, would be the independence myth. Boy, do I hear this one often in my practice, particularly with the younger generation, it's really common to hear especially from the younger married women. Oh, you know what? I'm not one of those needy kind of girls. I don't ever call my husband during the day or bug him about when he's coming home. We're both just very independent. And that's my big concern. Do you have that concern, too?

Linda Eyre  17:15

Enormous, the independence culture is getting to be the biggest problems in the world right now. Because people are thinking they don't even have to get married, they can be independent, they can be totally happy with who they are. But then even when you're married, they have that in mindset.

Richard Eyre  17:31

I think part of it is confusion, where people mistake something really wonderful called interdependence. They confuse it with codependence, they confuse it with some kind of a weakness that they're trying to avoid. And what we try to tell young couples or older couples, for that matter is, there's nothing more beautiful than, I mean, you can't argue against independence. We have a Declaration of Independence, we honor independence. But all you have to understand is trading that independence, willingly and joyfully for interdependence is just a beautiful thing. It's just, it's this wonderful act of saying, there's something better than being alone and being independent. And we call it interdependence. And it is really, really beautiful. And it's vulnerable too, and that's the thing people have to understand. That's what makes it so beautiful, is it's vulnerable and real. And you've now, you've traded for synergy?

Linda Eyre  18:36

Well, as you know, in your practice, there are so many, so many couples that just say, I kind of want my spouse to be independent, I don't want to have to solve every problem. And I think that's a problem too. And that's a myth. You need to work it out together, you need to feel like, what does this person need? You need to be thinking about all time, what what do they need? What can I do to make this person happier? Instead of go figure that out yourself? I need to be independent.

Richard Eyre  19:05

And just a quick final thought on what Linda brought up, one of the, we're trying to work on an essay right now that the working title is, what is the basic unit of society, and for generations, we've all paid lip service to the idea that a marriage and a family is the basic unit of society. But that is slipping away. And the society is behaving more and more like the individual is the basic unit of society. And at first you say well, so what, I mean, who cares? Actually, it's a huge issue. Because when you consider your marriage and your family to be the basic unit, you are moving towards responsibility and sacrifice and stewardship, and a mature attitude toward life. When you're moving in that other direction, the individuals what matters. You don't realize it but you're moving towards selfishness, towards win lose competition, and you're becoming part of the problem. And so one of the tragedies is how often we meet young couples who say, Well, you know, we are living together, we're trying it out. And you know, if it works, we may consider making a commitment and, and sometimes I can't help myself, I just say, Let me save you some time. It's the commitment that will get you through the hard times. If you're going to try to get through the hard times, and then make a commitment. You're never going to get there. And people, once they sort of see that, that yeah, marriage is a commitment. It is a leap into the unknown. It is giving up your independence. Yes. Those are all beautiful things to give up. If you love someone enough to give it up.

Dave Schramm  20:50

Yeah, that's a good one. Well said. Another myth that I love that you talk about in your book is the equality myth. You know, you know, John Gottman, John Gottman, he talks about the importance of sharing your partner's good news. How can we do a better job at this and combat this competition and comparison and not resent our partners, roles and opportunities?

Richard Eyre  21:11

I think Linda's the expert, I'll just say a preface, which is so often. This is the hardest one to argue with people because they're so locked into equality, if you even say, I think equality is a myth. You what? I, What are you saying? You know, I mean, that'll set them off right away. So we have to define it. And just, what we find so often in marriage is that poses for equality. It's just a way of keeping score. It's like, wait a minute, you do this at work? I don't get to do that. Or what will you get this what it says though, we're somehow trying to come up with a score that's tied at 98, or something, you know? Rather than say, hey, sometimes it's going to be, sometimes you're going to have a lot more going than I do. And sometimes I am. It's not about, there's something higher than equality. And it's something called synergy.

Linda Eyre  22:09

And boy thinking is going to be 50-50 is really, really scary. Because it is just 90-90 or 100-100. I mean, you and it's different. According to what you're doing right now in your life. We have these neighbors who the mom is dying, because the dad is building a new deck in their backyard. And she has total responsibility of the kids. I mean, he's obviously doing a lot, a lot of work and somebody coming home from work and going straight to the deck and doing it and so she's just saying the other day, honestly, I just have no break from these kids, because I am just taking care of them 24/7 and they are little ones and I just going crazy here.

Richard Eyre  22:53

He needs to take equal time. And we need to somehow balance this family.

Linda Eyre  22:57

And they have they have worked it out and they tried to do it. But at either one doesn't realize what the other one is doing. You know, he's trying his best to get this done before snow falls. She is trying her best to support. But it is really not equal ever. I mean, you kind of have to give and give and give on both sides and take turns.

Richard Eyre  23:18

So what's the truth for that? What truth to replace the myth of equality and for one of a better word, and actually, it's our favorite word is the word oneness. And again, that sets some people off. I don't want to be him. I want to be two. Well, the idea of the yin and the yang, that beautiful. Don't you love the diagram? I mean, they're one, they're one. But they have their separate place. By the way, if you turn a tennis ball just straight, I'm a big tennis guy. You turn the tennis ball, right? It's the perfect three dimensional yin and yang with that lineup. And so it's that oneness where my part is not exactly like yours, thank goodness, I had a classmate at Harvard, a French guy who, who used to just go around all the time, it was the year of intense sort of extreme women's liberation. And he wouldn't argue with anyone he would just yell "Viva la difference". I mean, he would, the thing that makes the world beautiful is how different we are not how the same we are, you know? And so that oneness is a beautiful substitute for equality.

Linda Eyre  24:24

But there are just times I mean, we have friends who are older friends, older than us, are taking care of this friend is taking care of her husband. But he, there have been times in life when he has taken over and done things too. So it's a big balance that, that happens in different configurations to go through.

Richard Eyre  24:47

And commitment like you say, closely tie the to the equality myth is the last one we'll be able to visit with today. Linda and Richard and thats the achievement method, their achievement one seeks at work right? In the community or even at church that can trump the efforts we placed on marriage. Even young parents may find themselves working harder at parenting than marriage, as you said earlier, because the demands and the needs are so great, what's the truth, please to the achievement? I'm glad we're ending on that one. Although we still get to make our big one thing, one takeaway, you know at the end but, but what I think the most valuable thing we try to teach people on our, in our speaking and presenting, is the very powerful difference between an achievement and a relationship. Most people's goals center around achievements, because they're measurable, they're quantifiable, you can segment them, you can say, I'm 50%, there and so on. Whereas their relationship to so many people is so ethereal and so hard to measure that they don't, they don't bother to set goals. And what we try to teach is that really all a goal is, is a clear vision of something the way you want it to be in the future. So we tried to get people to actually write a relationship description. The relationship they want with their spouse in three years. And boy, just that. And you, I'm sure you do similar things in your therapy, but the discipline of trying to use your imagination to envision not a perfect relationship, but one that has improved in certain ways. And to describe it, now you're working on, and that becomes a goal that is a magnet, you read it every week or so on, it draws you to it. And relationships, the problem in the world is relationships don't get the same recognition that achievements do. And so you find we speak a lot to young entrepreneurs and presidents of companies and so on. And they get so much money and so much recognition, so many awards for what they do with achievements. And they get nothing for relationships. And so they swing the pendulum this way, until they wake up and realize that the longer they live, it's this side that matters and not this side.

Linda Eyre  27:04

And really working on that relationship is really so important. And sometimes you just have to sit in fact, we have done a funny little exercise of talking about what do you think I need? I mean, I know you're with a lot of things. What do you think I need? And it turns out really interesting, because Richards risk, this is when we had a lot of little kids at home and his first response is, I think, I think that you need me to write a poem every day. Because that is what he wants to do for me, it was like, No, I want you to do the dishes. That is what I want you to do.

Richard Eyre  27:54

A great question to ask each other. I love that.

Dave Schramm  27:57

That's great. Okay, I have a question for you. Here at the stronger marriage connection, it's called Stronger marriage connection. We believe in that the point of this is to help couples strengthen that connection. So let me ask each of you, what do you think is the secret to a stronger marriage connection?

Linda Eyre  28:16

I'll start with that because I don't want you to take mine. So I think the biggest key that is helped us more than anything is to have a couples meeting every Sunday. We have a couple meeting every Sunday. And we sit down and we talk I mean, not only that, what do you need, but we talk about not only this schedule, but what can we do to help each other? Or what is our dilemma right now how do we work this up? You just, life is so crazy. You can just get spattered everywhere. If you don't take time to sit down and it's just 15 minutes, sometimes half an hour, sometimes.

Richard Eyre  28:54

Sometimes its a couple hours and we call it a Sunday session. No phones, no clocks, no interruptions. And it's a course correction like none other you know, we just love it.

Linda Eyre  29:06

I think without that you can get lost in the weeds. There are just so many distractions in marriage. And if you don't have the time and a place when you're gonna meet and you're gonna talk. You're gonna go through the kids maybe one week, what they need, but also what you need.

Richard Eyre  29:21

Mine, mine might be a little more philosophical, Dave. I am going to come back to the word you use Liz, earlier. It's all about commitment, if the commitments there, I'll tell you a quick story we were, we spent most of last week filming with two really wonderful young people and you you may know the name Sean Johnson won Olympic gold, won Dancing with the Stars, won the apprentice. She's just this real brand. She's four foot 10. She's dynamite. And she's married to Andrew East, who's become our good buddy and an NFL player. So he's like, twice as big as her but they are the most amazing couple and we got talking with them the other day in a break from the filming, we're doing a parenting course with them, which is awesome because they're, they're reaching parents, we can't reach. They're these young 20 somethings parents who don't read books. You know, they go online, they go on social media. Anyway, we're in between takes and we're talking about the power of commitment. And he said something in a way I'd never quite heard it before. Andrew said, when when Sean and I have a disagreement or an argument, which is fairly often because we're both pretty feisty, we know how it will end. We just don't know when it will end. The reason we know how we'll end is because we're totally committed forever to each other. We know how it'll end, It'll end with resolution. We're not sure when, but we know that'll be the end. And I thought that's a really neat way to say it, it's the commitment is total. You can get through a lot of pretty tough times knowing that you know, whatever does happen the commitment will always be there.

Linda Eyre  31:03

It'll be alright in the end. You just have that for sure. In fact, they did a podcast when just they, they were having an argument the entire time.

Richard Eyre  31:12

Its our favorite podcast and you can tell they're on YouTube too. And you can tell they're just mad as can be at each other. They have this deadline, so they start off on the podcast and they couldn't have rehearsed this. I mean, it's too spontaneous. But by the time it's an hour long, by the time they're just totally over it. The podcast solution, if you're really mad do a podcast. Thats pretty cute. It's so, it was so vulnerable of them, so real of them right? To show up. And sometimes we think we're the only ones right? Or just the shame you feel when you are maybe Richard and Linda and you have a tussle. when your Liz and you know, 30 year marriage therapist, and I blow it. That shame because we're just mere mortals.

Linda Eyre  32:02

You're absolutely right. I was so mad at Richard yesterday, I was so mad at him. But you know what, by the time we went to bed, thank goodness, we have worked it out.

Richard Eyre  32:11

Shes so cute when she's mad. I mean, there's something firey about her.  You ask the audience and the audience, you're speaking to a really intriguing question. Whos happiness do you think you have more control over, your spouse's or your own? I've really come to believe that Liz, I mean, Linda, is part of the vulnerability. Linda is in control of my happiness. She can turn it on or off, but she has the power. I don't. I can't decide when I'm going to be happy. Linda can by how she treats me in what she does. And I don't know if she'll admit it. But I can do the same to her.

Linda Eyre  32:53

Oh, he does a great job. He does a better job than I do at making me happy.

Richard Eyre  32:58

We have such power. Right? We have so much power for better or for worse in our marriages.

Linda Eyre  33:03

Absolutely. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up

Richard Eyre  33:05

We can help or heal. Yeah, well said.

Dave Schramm  33:08

Hey, we sure appreciate your, your wisdom, your decades of wisdom that you've shared so widely, and so well, for so many people. Hey, as we wrap up today, we'd like to ask our guests, you know, the big question, and that is our takeaway today. What is each of your, your takeaway today. Kind of that that nugget, that wisdom, that you hope that people will remember?

Richard Eyre  33:30

One word, commitment. Make it total, make it eternal.

Linda Eyre  33:34

And I would totally agree with that. And also love it. I mean, feel the joy, feel the joy of the relationship. Sometimes it just gets so hard because of kids and all this stuff going on in your life. I think you need to remember that you're having fun. And that sometimes you have to pinch yourself to remember that you're having fun, but it is a joyful experience to be totally committed to somebody. And I think that's what we need.

Dave Schramm  33:59

That's great. Yeah, Liz, what about you?

Richard Eyre  34:02

Is we have, we are powerful, more powerful than we realize. We are, we have the power to hurt or to help our partners. Yeah. What about you Dave?

Dave Schramm  34:12

I think this, this whole idea of not keeping score, kind of not keeping track of this or that. And there's gonna be times when I need to give a lot more and my wife might be sick or going through challenges. And so it's to give more and not keep score. So, my goodness Richard and Linda, we sure appreciate your your time. What a great conversation. So, as we wrap up, we hope our friends followers would continue to stick with us through the stronger marriage connection podcast. And thanks for joining us today.

Richard Eyre  34:44

Remember, it's the small things that create a stronger marriage connection.

Dave Schramm  34:52

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a few minutes to subscribe to our podcasts and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel, where you can watch this and every episode of the show. When you hit the like button and leave a comment, your feedback helps us improve the show. And don't forget to share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and connect with us on Instagram, at strongermarriagelife and on Facebook at strongermarriage. Be sure to share with us what topics you want us to explore, or what you loved about today's episode. If you want even more resources to improve your relationship connection, visit our website at strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, webinars, relationships surveys and more. Each episode of stronger marriage connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. Finally, a big thanks to our producers Rex Polanis Kierston Wilson and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible.