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SPEAKERS

Casey Caston, Meygan Caston, Dave Schramm, Liz Hale

Meygan Caston  00:00

She just stops and she's writing on her notepad. And she looks up and she said,

Meygan Caston  00:04

You know what? Megan, Casey's not here on this couch. But you are, and I can show you how to be the healthiest version of yourself, if you trust me. Because, if you want to make a better marriage, make a better you.

Meygan Caston  00:19

I think that whole concept that two people in a marriage need to be there working on their marriage it is great.  I want that. Of course, that's ideal for any couple. But the reality we all need to face, helping couples, is oftentimes it starts with one person, and in our marriage, it just happened to be me.

Dave Schramm  00:42

On today's episode, we talked with a couple who had quite the journey. Casey and Megan Caston, were the couple least likely to succeed in their marriage. After meeting in college, they fell in love fast and then said, I do. But after only three years, they were headed straight for divorce. Their relationship had fallen apart, communication was lost, sex was nonexistent, their finances crumbled in the midst of the chaos. The worst part, they placed blame on each other for their bad marriage. One thing they did agree on, they both didn't want to become another American divorce statistic. The Castons began searching for ways to do marriage, right. They surrounded themselves with healthy couples, experts’ books, and got therapy to make a relational transformation. But they admit that it was a long and really difficult process to find resources that were affordable and convenient.

Dave Schramm  01:31

They decided to do something about it and founded Marriage365, Be sure to visit Marriage365.com. To learn more about their membership program, and newly released marriage app. We hope you enjoy the show.

Liz Hale  01:50

Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection. I'm psychologist Liz Hale, along with the esteemed professor David Schramm. We are dedicating our life's work to bringing you the best we have and valid marital research, along with a few tips and tools to help you create the marriage of your dreams. Good morning, Dave.

Dave Schramm  02:10

Hey, Liz. It's so great to be with you.

Liz Hale  02:11

It's so great to be with you. I'm super excited to share with you and our listeners and viewers. This great couple Casey and Megan Caston. I have followed them for a long time. They are cofounders of Marriage365. They are one of the most, Dave, transparent couples you're ever going to want to meet. They fell in love in college, they got married had the good life, except three years later, they were headed for divorce courts, and everything was falling apart right from their finances, to their communication to their lovemaking. The one thing that they had in common, however, is they didn't want to be another divorce statistic. And they got busy and down and dirty. So, I'm really happy that we can share with everyone, Megan and Casey Caston. Welcome to the show.

Casey Caston  02:13

Thanks, Liz.

Meygan Caston  02:14

Thank you for having us. Excited to be here.

Dave Schramm  02:22

Yeah, we're so excited to have you guys on here. And thanks for your transparency, your vulnerability. And by the way for turning your marriage around. I think that brings a lot of of hope. So, Marriage365 was born out of your own realization that none of us, know how to do this thing called marriage, right out of the gate. Right. So you wanted to make it not only accessible, but affordable to couples, which is just so awesome. So, tell us a little bit about that.

Meygan Caston  03:30

Yeah, so basically, when our marriage was falling apart, you know, we got married young, we didn't have money, we had a lot of student loan debt. And we were looking for resources. And, basically, the only option was therapy. Well, what do you do if you can't afford therapy? We're very pro therapy at Marriage365. If you can afford it, it's the best thing that you can possibly do for yourself. But the reality is, is we went into debt as we were rebuilding and repairing our marriage. And as we chilled, we thought gosh, like, what do couples do if they're not in an area with great marriage and family therapists? What if they're not involved at a church that offers some kind of marriage counseling or marriage programs? What do couples do and you just feel so stuck anyways.

Meygan Caston  04:17

You know, this was the time when everything was starting to go online. That kind of dates, how old we are, you know, and I remember going, what if we had an online resource where it was practical, it was affordable, it was accessible for anybody, not just the United States, but in other countries. Because if a marriage is hurting, no matter where you live, you should be able to invest in it if that's what you desire to do.

Casey Caston  04:39

I think a lot of guys are afraid to go to a therapist’s office. I mean, first of all, it's intimidating. It's very scary to open up and be vulnerable with someone that's sitting across the way. I mean, a lot of guys are just thinking they're getting judged, you know, for something as natural as just being in a relationship with somebody.

Casey Caston  04:59

Shouldn't it come natural? And if I'm failing at it? What does that say about me? So, there's a lot of shame. So, you know, nobody wants to raise their hand and say, hey, I'm struggling in the sex department, even though they're not going to do that with their friends. They don't want to deal with a therapist. So, what if there was a safe place anonymously, you can ask all the embarrassing questions you never wanted to bring up. But you actually had a tool and resource. And that was what we needed when we were struggling.

Casey Caston  05:28

When we look in the camera and film one of those webcasts, we are looking at a younger version of ourselves and saying, if we had a time machine to enter into our living room, in those first years of marriage, what would we want to have occurred, right? Because, my mom's married six times. I had no clue what a healthy relationship looked like. I had no clue. I had zero communication skills. I didn't know how to handle emotions, let alone Megan's, so I mean, I was a hot mess.

Meygan Caston  05:33

Yes, he was. I agree.

Liz Hale  06:10

You had several marriages on your side as well, Megan and divorces?

Meygan Caston  06:15

Yeah. So, between both sets of our parents, there's been 12 marriages. That's a lot. And I think people feel really overwhelmed when they hear that number. Try living it.  So, there was just a lot of divorce, a lot of infidelity. Just a lot of brokenness really. Like Casey said, I love that Babe, how you are like, I never knew what to do. We were not equipped, getting married. We believe that love was enough, which I'm sure you to have heard the stories. And then what happens when you don't feel the love? What happens when those feelings kind of go and you're like, is this all there is?

Dave Schramm  06:52

Yeah, I just have to point out, statistically speaking from the research, there's no way that you two should be together.  I think that there's some listeners who can relate to that, who have parents or grandparents and people have been through marriage and divorce. They're like, okay, you know, the odds are stacked against us. How, how do we make this work? I think that your story resonates and they can relate and say, Ah, there's hope. I know someone who's been through this and more and still can make it work.

Casey Caston  07:20

Dave, we were rambling off at a retreat, all the things that we struggled with not just parents with infidelity, but you know, mental illness, even, blended family.

Meygan Caston  07:33

Okay. We live in Orange County, California, the divorce rate is one of the highest in the nation. It's 72%.

Casey Caston  07:40

Yeah.  We dealt with infertility. We buried ourselves $200,000 worth of debt. So, this petition came up to us and he said, hey, listen, I just added all these things up as factors on your marital success level. He came back and says 1.9% chance of you surviving. Dave, that's why people call us the couple that's least likely to succeed in marriage.

Dave Schramm  08:05

Yeah, marriage survivors.

Meygan Caston  08:07

Yeah. And not to mention, we're both very stubborn people. Like our personalities, we're, we're both leaders. We're both extrovert, very competitive people.

Casey Caston  08:21

ADHD

Meygan Caston  08:22

Yes, he has ADHD, and then on top of it our son who we love dearly, but he has autism. So even special needs child, you know, it raises the chance of you having not only just marital strife, but even divorce. So, we really did have all the odds stacked against us. We are fighters though. We're like, we are beating it.

Liz Hale  08:43

Yes, you are. I love that determination. You Where did you get that determination? Do you think what made you look at each other saying, enough? We're not going to go down that road like our family did? We're gonna do something different is adjust that fight that you had?

Meygan Caston  08:58

No, actually. Um, so it actually started with me. I had begged Casey to go to therapy with me. He said no, I tried every unhealthy tactic in the book. I did the nagging, the uncontrollable crying, the manipulation, I withheld sex. I slammed doors, I gave the silent treatment, to get his attention. Because all I wanted was for him to fight for me and to fight for our marriage. He kept saying, I'm not the problem. You're the problem Meygan.

Meygan Caston  09:32

I went to my girlfriend and I said, you know, I can't believe this. Like, I can't believe I'm going to do this, but I am done.

Meygan Caston  09:39

 She says before you make that decision, because Megan, that is a massive decision that you're going to make in your life. You need to go to see a therapist on your own. Best advice she gave me, and I did. I'm on the couch and I just remember feeling so hopeless. It was one of the worst moments of my life. I remember I had lost like 20 pounds like wouldn't eat, I was just, I couldn't believe that I got to this point.  I'm sitting here telling her all the things about our marriage and how bad of a husband Casey is. 

Meygan Caston  10:09

She just stops, and she's writing on her notepad. She looks up and she said, you know what? Megan, Casey's not here on this couch. But you are. I can show you how to be the healthiest version of yourself, if you trust me. Because, if you want to make a better marriage, make a better you.

Meygan Caston  10:29

I think that whole concept, that two people in a marriage need to be there, working on their marriage, is great.  I want that. Of course, that's ideal for any couple. But the reality we all need to face helping couples is that oftentimes it starts with one person. In our marriage, it just happened to be me. For 13, long months, I stopped worrying about what he was going to do what he wasn't doing. I stopped blaming him, and I really just put the focus on me, I was unhealthy. I had issues I did to work on me.

Meygan Caston  11:04

I started to change. Then there's freedom in that right, you become more confident. I became more self-aware, I started knowing Oh, those are, that's why he's triggered. That's why that bothers simple. This is why we fight about this. And then I learned how to communicate, I learned how to set boundaries, no matter what was going to happen in my marriage. I was not going to settle for just being an average wife. I was going to be the healthiest person I can be.

Casey Caston  11:30

I thought we were doomed. I literally thought we were doomed. Because, I saw a change in Megan. Like I said, I had no idea how to navigate relationships, because of my, my childhood trauma and abandonment wounds and everything else like that. You know, I saw her transform before my eyes into this healthy person into a healthy wife. I remember there's one time I came at her with so much energy, she just pissed me off. Now I'm walking up to her, she sees me come in.

Casey Caston  12:05

She's like, hey, I can tell that you're upset. I really want to hear what you have to say. I'm going to step outside and let you take a moment to yourself, when we come back, let's talk in a healthy way.

Casey Caston  12:05

Like, what I was, like my sparring partner was gone, right? I'm like, who is this person?  I all of a sudden, it just started to dawn on me. Like, it was very obvious who is the toxic unhealthy spouse. It was me. I looked at Megan. I saw the confidence in her. I was like, damn it's sexy. I want that. Right. I saw this, the setting healthy boundaries, I saw this person come alive. I really wanted to be just like her. Because, Megan as she said, she stopped settling for herself. She set a higher bar.  I realized I wanted that. You know, it took a long time for us to heal our marriage. It didn't happen overnight.

Meygan Caston  13:05

I know we always tell couples; it does not happen overnight. There are no quick fixes in marriage. Right?

Casey Caston  13:10

Yeah.

Meygan Caston  13:11

But, those years of repairing, were hard and emotional, but beautiful.  I think the fighters in us came at that moment.

Casey Caston  13:11

Yeah

Meygan Caston  13:13

Like it was like we're not we there's a better way to do marriage. Like we're gonna do this the right way.

Casey Caston  13:25

Yeah, we lived with our parents’ divorce decisions, and we're like, that's not what we want.

Meygan Caston  13:31

No.

Liz Hale  13:32

Dave, you know what I got to tell you and Megan, the most amazing part of that story to me is who you happen to choose for a therapist, you realize right, that could have gone so differently. Had you sat on that couch complain about Casey, she could have bought into it right? A therapist, as well meaning as we are could have bought in and say, you know what, you probably should just get out. How did you choose? So, well? Did you know that you were choosing well?

Meygan Caston  13:55

I did not know I was choosing well, no, she was she was a recommendation from someone that I knew. I think we tell couples, when we're helping them and we're recommending therapy, you know, you really want to get someone who's going to be able to point out the good and the bad, and not just hear you and validate you, now there's times when you need to go to therapy and say listen, I just need a safe place right now. That's all I need, you know, but I do really like when you're stuck in a situation in your will in your life, or in your marriage, for them to use even kind of some marriage coaching tactics to say, here's what you need to do. Here's the goal that you want to move towards. I'm going to help you get there. Because again, the end result is what we're looking for. Right? Do you want to be off her couch? She wanted me to succeed in life. She wanted the best for me, no matter what was going to happen in my marriage.

Casey Caston  14:45

She was giving you practical tools that you can apply in your life and not just reflective questions. Because you know, if I was sitting in that therapist’s office again, my compass was so far away from north, on what a healthy relationship looks like if somebody said, so what do you think you should do? I'm like, Whoa,

Meygan Caston  15:03

I don't know. That's what I'm here.

Casey Caston  15:05

Point me in the right direction, please.

Liz Hale  15:28

Well, I commend you and I commend that therapist, I have so many favorite things on Marriage365, I've turned to, one of them, I'll have to be honest with you. I have used quite a bit I've borrowed from you. I don't always give you credit. So, I'm sorry, but it's the wait, W, A, I, T, the acronym.

Meygan Caston  15:45

Yes.

Liz Hale  15:45

Why am I talking? Because, words really get in the way for one, right. We use the wrong words for another. Tell us more about how you came up with WAIT.

Meygan Caston  15:55

Yeah, so that actually was something that I've learned through therapy, and also being married to someone who has ADHD. Also, myself being someone who is, one of my top strengths is communication. The problem is, is if I'm not in a healthy state, my communication, my words can cut really, really sharp.  I would say things in the name of honesty, quote, unquote, but it was brutal honesty. So, weight is about thinking before you speak. We teach our children this, and then somehow, we stopped teaching that to adults. You know, just give yourself a minute, and really evaluate. Again, it's really about if you want to make a better marriage, make a better you.

Meygan Caston  16:39

I have a worksheet at Marriage365, where it's a series of questions, and it's really processing, what do I want from this conversation with my spouse? What is the outcome I'm looking for? Am I in a healthy place? Am I wanting an apology? Am I wanting validation? Am I wanting just a safe place to vent? All of those are example questions that you would ask yourself and man it when you do it and practice it, the communication is so much more clear and defined, because we believe at Marriage365, it is your responsibility to give your spouse the heads up of what you want the conversation to be. They are not a mind reader. We want them to be mind readers. Wait, Casey, are you a mind reader?

Casey Caston  17:20

No

Meygan Caston  17:20

I know. I'm not a mind reader. We sure would love it, if we could read each other's minds. But that's just not real life. I love, I love that you love that. Because, it's, it's a tool that I think, not even just in marriage, I think everybody that communicates to someone, can definitely benefit from it.

Dave Schramm  17:38

I love that. One of your popular videos on Marriage365? Is the date night? You talk about the the questions, that you can ask each other, give us a sample of some of those questions that you've talked about on that video?

Casey Caston  17:51

Well, one of the ways that we build emotional intimacy is through open ended questions. I think that comes so easy. When we feel the love, when we're dating, when we're excited about the novelty of getting to know someone. That’s easy. But then we get married. Things get mundane. We're processing through life. We're raising children, we are going to work Monday through Friday, like the mundane can kind of start to put the chill, on that once you know, fiery hot love. Then what happens is you get to date nights. If you have not been building and been intentional with your relationship, date nights turn into, you know, talking about the kids talking about schedules, talking about work, talking about the money, house projects, it becomes very transactional. So, couples are struggling. They want that emotional intimacy. They know that, that something, there's something more we can have than what we have now. We just don't know how to get to there been. I think that obviously, you've heard the advice date your wife, date your husband, right? Keep dating, don't stop dating. That tool is helping couples, like especially our 365 Connecting Questions for Couples book is helping couples engage in the conversation. Frankly, even though we wrote the book, we bring it along every date night, because, you know, at a certain point, we're like, hey, let's engage in a conversation. And you know what?  You can't blame it on the question. You know, if it brings up a fight, it's probably unearthing conflict that's there. But you know, blame it on the question, right?

Dave Schramm  19:36

Yeah

Meygan Caston  19:36

We typically asked the same things. How was work? How are the kids, you know, what's for dinner? Did you pick up the dry cleaning? So, a couple sample questions would be something like what is a goal you want us to set and by the end of this year? What is a way your parents expressed their love to you growing up?

Casey Caston  19:53

What did your parents teach you about money?

Meygan Caston  19:55

Oh my gosh. Right. That's a five-hour conversation for Casey nice.

Casey Caston  19:59

What are things that we can say no to, that we're committed to, to say yes to our marriage?

Meygan Caston  20:06

These questions, like you said, Babe, were so good at them when we're dating. And we just, it's not intentional, we just asked the same questions over and over again. So, it allows someone who's really tired from work, or if you've been with the kids all day, to just open the book, and just ask a question and take turns answering it. Sometimes the questions are, you know, three minutes, and sometimes it'll bring hours of conversation, and your answers will change. It's so great to hear couples’ feedback to say, I didn't even realize this was going on in my spouse's world. By one asking, one simple question, brought up so much other things in our marriage, but it's also, I think it's a gift to your marriage. Because what that is, it's giving your marriage quality time together, and you're saying we're going to stop the noise around us. We're going to turn off the TV, we're going to silence our phones, we're just going to connect and whether you ask the question, on a walk around your block, or over the phone, it doesn't even have to be in person. But it's still that emotional intimacy, which we know is the glue in marriage.

Dave Schramm  21:08

Yeah. Yeah. It really is, hence the name of our podcast, Stronger Marriage Connection. It's not just strong marriage, but that connection, that emotional, that physical commitment, connection, the intimacy that couples need,

Liz Hale  21:20

Even that idea of connecting first before communicating.

Dave Schramm  21:22

Oh, yeah, yes, absolutely. It has. That's true Liz. Ok, I got to ask you this one as well. I got to jump in and ask this. Tell us about the 60 second blessing. Are you willing to give us kind of a little demonstration? How we can do that?

Meygan Caston  21:38

Oh, yeah, we will totally demonstrate it.

Casey Caston  21:41

Words have a very powerful force. You think about it. I think sometimes we underestimate how powerful the words we speak over each other, are in our relationships. Right? An ancient Jewish proverb says that words either give life or they take away life, and that you get to choose.  I think if we're not intentional, we're not checking in, our words are cheap. The 60 second blessing is a focus time, where you and turn to your partner. And for 60 seconds, you shower them with words of love of affirmation, how proud you are of them, the qualities that you appreciate about them, that you see in them. It's almost actually a beautiful way to speak into the insecurities that you may have. Your spouse may have to say, that's not true, you're actually a really amazing Dad, you, you are a hard worker, you're very creative person, right? And then what happens is, once that is done, then the other partner would give the other person 60 seconds of showering them with their affirmation, it's really powerful

Meygan Caston  22:55

It's a two-minute daily habit. I think the goal would be that couples would try to commit to this to do it every day for seven days. We say, try it for seven days. See and evaluate. How are we feeling? Are we feeling more connected? Do we have a stronger marriage? Do I feel more loved? Wow, you pointed out something that I didn't even know you recognized about me that you that you appreciate. If we don't give our marriage that time, it's almost like we just assume our spouse knows these things.

Meygan Caston  23:26

This is actually something that we learned when we did a marriage intensive when we were really bad. They taught kind of a version of it, but it was like longer. We're like what can be shorter, because we had really, littles at that time, our kids were really, really young. I think when we did the intensive, I think our son was maybe like five months old. But like, I don't know how much time I'm living off no sleep. What can I do and Casey. he goes, what if we did the 60 second blessing, and I don't know, that just stuck. And we're like, I love that. And now 10s of 1000s of couples all around the world are doing it and we love to hear those stories.

Casey Caston  23:59

Yeah, when we do retreats, and we do the 6o second blessing, never a dry in the audience, because people have not installed that discipline. They're hearing those words for the first time. Maybe months, sometimes years,

Meygan Caston  24:15

Sometimes decades.

Casey Caston  24:17

Yeah, that's true. It's powerful. It is very powerful.

Meygan Caston  24:21

Then we tell people that have children to model the 60 second blessing actually in front of your kids, because the kids now need to see their parents speaking words of life and love and appreciation. But then, to take it another level is to do the 60 second blessing to your children. I know for me, and you know, we’ve got a teenage daughter, and the world is telling her she is not enough. She does not look right. She does not do this right. So, to be able to sit there and speak the 60 second blessing to her too, and to both of our kids.

Casey Caston  24:54

I mean, imagine if your mom came in and just spoke 60 second blessing over you. What emotional state would you be in?

Meygan Caston  25:02

I may have a heart attack. I, it would be, I it'd be lifee shatter, I don't even know actually.

Casey Caston  25:10

So, parents of adults, you can still do the 60 second blessing to your kids and still make their day.

Liz Hale  25:18

That touching Dave. I wanted to brag about Casey and Meghan, also Dave, they made an extra TV appearance, you know, the show extra TV, right extra, extra. They were on their talking about Hollywood marriage talking about out of the spotlight marriages. One thing I didn't know in that segment, Casey and Meygan was about Patrick Dempsey and his wife, like in 2015, she had filed for divorce, I believe. A year later, they announced that they're going to work on their marriage. I mean, that's again, just another vote of confidence when he came out and said, you know, our marriage was not something I was prepared to let go of. I didn't feel like we've done all the work. My wife didn't feel like we've done all the work, and we wanted to, and that's where we started. I thought that was so encouraging for the rest of us.

Casey Caston  26:00

Yeah, you know, I'm proud of Patrick for making a stand and choosing not to live a life of regret and saying, you know what, maybe we are better together, we're stronger together. And let's work it out. I wish he was a Marriage365 member, I wish there was actually a lot of public figures that were members, because, I think there's a lot of distraction when you come into the spotlight. You know, it's not akin to just the normal everyday couple as well. There's a lot of distractions that all of us deal with, right? I just think that for celebrities, and for people in the public figure, it's just more intense. But it's still a distraction. Work can still be a distraction. Making the kids a priority can still be a distraction. The commitments to families, extended families can be a distraction. In fact, social media entertainment, there's a lot of things that people can prioritize over their spouse. But you know, the winners in the public eye and in the private eye to, are those that then make a decision, say I don't want to live a life of regret. I don't want to settle for just having an average marriage, I want to have a stronger marriage, I want to have something and I'm going to figure out, how do I get the tools and resources in my pocket, that are going to give me those like the action steps.  I'm going to figure out what's a realistic plan for us to invest in a relationship, invest in myself and my emotional health, and that I can become the best version of myself. So, when I show up, I'm not a hot mess anymore. Right? Yeah.

Dave Schramm  27:46

Yeah, I love that. Man. You have so many tools, so many practical things that you're sharing with couples, you have the 60 second blessing. Tell us a little bit about the monthly check in. Right, you talked about 30 minutes of setting sights and time. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Meygan Caston  28:00

Yeah, so we actually have a individual monthly check in and then we have a couple's monthly check in because of course, kind of what we stand at Marriage365, like we've chatted about is if you want to make a better marriage, make it better you, but to the couples check in this is really asking questions, kind of those open ended questions we're talking about where there's a time of reflection, it's looking at this last 30 days, and saying, what did we do, right?

Meygan Caston  28:26

Where can we improve? Really taking it at 30 minutes, once a month, putting it on your calendar to say, let's just make sure we didn't just kind of skip through this last month and just kind of, you know, wing it to really go, is there something we need to change? Or because I love this with my current marriage?

Meygan Caston  28:45

I don't think we celebrate enough. I don't think we celebrate our wins enough. And this is giving you an opportunity to do that as well to say, wow, that was a really great date night. Wow, we listened to the stronger marriage podcast, and we learned so much from them, you should be celebrating that.

Meygan Caston  29:00

Then the next 15 minutes of the meeting is to look at the next month and to plan. Because I think that the number one issue, we're seeing with couples is not a lack of desire. They want a healthy marriage. They're not planning. They're not scheduling. They're not evaluating and processing and taking the time to go, what do we need to do and implement into our lives in order to have a better marriage? So now it's looking forward in the next 30 days, and really actually coming up with plan. Okay, what are the three practical things that we're going to do this next month to make sure that we're spending time together? That's an example. What are we going to do to make sure that our sex life doesn't, you know, go on the back burner? Right? What do we need to say no to so that we can say yes to each other? Is there anything I need to apologize for? I think a lot of couples, right, especially, I love my husband, but you know, he's an avoider. If I don't ask sometimes, he'll never bring up an issue. So, it's my opportunity to say hey, have I done anything? Have I said anything? And that's usually when he feels kind of like he has the freedom to be like, okay, I haven't said anything but you know, you made this comment and it hurt. So that's what I love about the couple's monthly check in. Then once you do that, if you want to even take it a step further, and your kind of on this self-discovery pathway, definitely check out the individual monthly check in, because now you get to evaluate yourself, and be really honest about how you're doing the good and the bad and the ugly thing.

Dave Schramm  30:24

Yeah.

Liz Hale  30:41

You have a pulse on a lot of couples around the globe, Casey and Megan, tell us a bit about what COVID has done. The damage it's done to us as marriages, in our marriages and our families. What do you see? And what do you recommend?

Meygan Caston  30:56

Do you want to talk about how to talk about it? Or do we have a lot to say about this.

Casey Caston  31:01

It's very interesting season we've gone through. I think there was a lot of unknowns at the beginning. What we noticed most was the level of anxiety that it created with a lot of couples. Anxiety is a fear, whether it's valid or invalid. I think that there's a lot to have been said about the viewer tied to the news 24/7. Statistics show your anxiety levels were elevated, no doubt about it. What we heard from couples was the realization that when they were forced to be together for extended amounts of time, either they had a strong structure of emotional intimacy and safety and vulnerability, that they can withstand an outside pressure. Or they were just in a house of cards. As soon as COVID lockdowns happened, it expose them, that we have neglected our relationship. So, what had happened was a lot of couples, kind of hunkered down. They said, you know what, team Caston, we got this written, we’re going to do this together. But then a lot of couples realized, wow, we have been going way too long without checking in with each other. We have not invested in emotional intimacy, and I don't feel safe with you. Because you have not been there for me. I'm an avoider so I know what this feels like, you've avoided the issues in a relationship. I've been the only one that's had to carry the relationship. Then there's some questions about tolerance of like, oh, now how long am I going to tolerate? If I asked you to join me in the marriage, and you're looking at me and saying, I'm just going to do my thing? Still, we have a lot of questions about healthy separation, because conversing with their spouse did not get them engaged. So, we had conversations about well, how do you separate in a healthy way, not separation to divorce, but actually separation to disrupt that person's life enough where they go, oh, my gosh, like, I may lose something that's really, really important to me, or at least I say that verbally. Now when they're actually physically gone, now I'm feeling emotional distance and pain.

Meygan Caston  33:27

Yeah, and then just lots of fights about, you know, all the stuff, the vaccines, the masks. There are many couples that, you know, they were afraid to have sex because they were afraid to get sick. You know, and I always say, like, can you imagine if you told everybody 10 years ago, you and your spouse would be fighting over masks, you'd go, you're crazy. But that was a real thing. I think we all work with couples; we all want to see them succeed. The thing is, at the end of the day, there isn't always a right and wrong. It's always seeing two perspectives, and teaching couples how to move forward through that, because Casey and I are actually very different politically, but we still can talk about it and respect each other. That's the goal, right? Like it's okay to have different views on these things. Because COVID again, exposed so many fears and anxiety. It was like, don't let a mask break you up. You know, like, you're bigger than this, you're better than this. You can overcome this.

Meygan Caston  34:23

I love Liz, something that you always say is your job is to give hope. That's a really great marriage and family therapist. Because, if you leave the session not feeling hopeful.... you know they want you to succeed in life. Part of that is hope, hope that there is better in the future. Because, when you're stuck and you're lonely, and we were all stuck at home, all of us got some hope that was taken from us. How do you give that back to couples?  Casey's nickname is The Tony Robbins for marriage.

Casey Caston  34:53

I think it was really painful to watch the dead vision that was happening collectively as our country was divided as COVID lockdowns, then we had racial tensions, and there's divisions there, then we were divided about the election, then we're divided about vaccines. That happen not only collectively as a culture, but that started happening in the home. Where there was, people were looking at each other, like, you don't believe in masks? I'm out of here. We're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like, this is not the issue to split a family and leave collateral damage with kids. As an excuse, as a way to divide. 

Casey Caston  35:37

I think, guys, we're on a mission to unify, and you know what, it's going to start in the family unit, it's going to start by maturing up relationships. We'd like to say we're on a mission, we want to be as fast as we can to reach a million families, and increase their marital satisfaction by giving them practical tools, action plans, not just advice. But actually, here's what you need to do to build a healthy relationship. We're going to do that with our membership with our courses and videos. But we're actually going to be tracking the data because we have a Marriage365 checkup.  We ask questions, not how are we doing? It's actually how do I show up in the relationship? Then we will be able to track that the next month after watching content and getting those plans and enacting them? Where did your marriage score go? Each member would have eyes on that. Then collectively, we're going to be able to monitor that data to say, hey, as we start seeing people engage in this, are we able to elevate the marriage health score of our nation or a million families. That, to me is the mission I'm so excited about. It gets me up in the morning, it charges me up, gets me very excited. Because, to think that the couple that is the least likely to succeed, the couple that was horrible at marriage. In fact, I sometimes joke, I said, my job is now to stand up on a national stage and say, here's how crappy of a husband I was.

Dave Schramm  37:17

It's pretty believable.

Casey Caston  37:18

Yeah,  yeah.

Meygan Caston  37:23

Sometimes he goes, wait, you really want me to say that? I said, I think you need to say that. I think that really opened the doors for more people to be vulnerable.

Casey Caston  37:33

But if we can impact our generation. I'm thinking about the long... I'm already thinking 20 years down the line of these, these couples raising kids, they're being affirmed. They're confident, they're watching healthy relationships, then those kids do not have to go through the nightmare situation of what I had experienced as a child, with dads coming in and out.  Blended families and nightmares that came with that, the insecurities the abandonment wounds. I want no child to ever have to experience that.  I know that if I can, if that's my end target, we got to back up and start saying, hey, how do we start maturing these relationships?

Dave Schramm  38:20

Yeah, it's it's powerful.

Liz Hale  38:22

You're impressive. Of course, your new app Marriage Marriage365 app is going to help you do just that. Tell us a little bit more about that.

Meygan Caston  38:31

Yeah. So, like Casey mentioned, the main thing we do in Marriage365 is we have an online streaming service. That's our membership. We heard from our members, and they said, can you make an app? That would make it even easier to use our membership. We recently launched an app. It's been amazing to see, we have already, over 100, 5-star reviews, it's not even been a month out. It just makes working on your marriage, even that much simpler. I mean, I'm a mom of two kiddos, I'm in the pickup line, I dropped him off at practice, you can just sit there for five minutes and do something for your marriage. I think at the end of the day, doing something, is better than doing nothing. I think we're trying to make it so easy for people to work on their marriage, to where it's not too complicated. It's not over their head. You don't have to have, you know, a degree in psychology. Anybody that wants a healthy marriage can have a healthy marriage. It starts by making a healthy you. Casey and I, the reason why our marriage is successful, is because we're two healthy individuals, two healthy individuals to make a healthy marriage. That doesn't mean that if you're listening and someone's like, oh great, like I'm so unhealthy or my spouse is. That's why we love to share our story because we've truly lived it, and I think that's the hope. I think also, there is so much freedom, and peace, and if you've been feeling that anxiety and that stress and you're done with it. Once you start taking the focus off your spouse and just focus on you and how you're showing up, it just makes life so much more enjoyable, and there is hope.

Dave Schramm  40:12

Any anything for singles? What about singles? Anything for them?

Meygan Caston  40:16

Oh, I mean, how much time you have.  I love working with someone who's single. And you know why? The fact that they're listening, they're already leap years ahead of everybody else. They're doing something right. So, if they're single listening, I'm just so proud of anyone who is a part of Marriage365, is part of the stronger marriage podcast, like connection, anything like that. Because, what you're saying is, one day if that happens for me, I want to be equipped.

Meygan Caston  40:44

I think, make sure you're dating someone that you have shared values. That is our number one advice. You can be different personalities, you can have different hobbies, you have all those things. Typically, opposites attract, right. I mean, Casey and I are very opposite in many ways.  I think at the end of the day, you need to have your core values lined up. If you value honesty and vulnerability, you should try to marry someone and be with someone who is honest and vulnerable. You don't want to be with someone who's not those things, who doesn't value or appreciate that, because that will come out on the other side of marriage, date and have fun, dating should be fun. Not you know, it's not rainbows and butterflies every day. But it should be fun. If it's really hard and yucky and complicated right away, then you're probably not with the right person.

Casey Caston  41:32

You know, the tools and resources that we've created. I think Megan mentioned this earlier, are really for any relationship that you have, for example, we teach the four-step proper apology. That's something that should be employed in the workforce, that says something that should be employed with friends. If you've hurt your friends, to be able to do a proper apology. Learning to walk in forgiveness. Learning how to set healthy boundaries. I mean, I would say Marriage365 has a ton of dating resources, in creating a confident person. Meygan's got a courageous confidence course to help understand like, how do I get more of that good look, and swagger that's attractive to other people.  I will say that, you know, on the bucket lists for this upcoming year is to create dating resources. So we have dating resources and divorce care, because we want to do all cycle relationship care. Because there are different seasons. I will say this, one of the reasons why we do have unhealthy marriages, is because we don't date well. We don't ask the hard questions.

Meygan Caston  42:42

We focus way too much on love and sex.

Casey Caston  42:45

100%. Like, we don't set ourselves up with the right expectations for what marriage really is. Because of that, we choose the wrong partner, or we have the wrong mindset. Then we get into marriage, we're frustrated, because, you know, we're trying to stick a square peg into a round hole. So, we definitely see that if we can improve the dating, like we can date up, then we're going to see healthier marriages.

Meygan Caston  43:14

Okay, I have one more thing to say, we should do a whole podcast just for singles. Because, I have so much to say, um, Liz as a marriage and family therapist, I'm sure you would agree.

Meygan Caston  43:24

We ended up asking 30 friends, we have a lot of friends who are in the same, you know, realm as us.  I asked them what is your best advice for someone who's single, and about 25 of them said, the same thing. If you want to be teachable, then you want to have a spirit of learning and growing. If you're always someone who's like, you know what, I don't know about that. But I'm going to learn and I'm going to teach. When you start to date, you also want to be with someone who's the same way.

Meygan Caston  43:54

So, someone you're starting to date goes, oh, I don't do therapy. Oh, that's a red flag. We say no, stay away. Because if you're going to get married, and you're going to have problems, guess what they're gonna say, oh, I'm not going to therapy. So, if you are learning and growing, and you're someone who's teachable, oh, you again you're you're listening to this podcast, you probably already are that person. You're, you're doing so well in life already. Keep going. Never stop.

Meygan Caston  44:21

I think that we do put too much of an emphasis on love and sex. So, when those things are rattled, or they don't go the way we thought they would. Then what is the foundation the couple has? That's the problem that we're seeing a lot and we can do lots more about that. So, let's stop now.

Liz Hale  44:40

The only thing I would add is that find someone who is willing to tell the truth about themselves, right? Putting their worst foot forward instead of their best foot forward. Can you tell the truth about yourself and find someone who will also tell you about the downsides of them right here are my warts and my weaknesses. Show me yours. I'll show you mine.

Meygan Caston  45:05

Marriage will expose those warts and those worse things. We like to call them growth areas. You know, marriage will expose that so quickly. If you think you can hide them. You can for a bit. But once you get married, you can't hide anything, you can't fool your spouse, really say you can't fool your spouse. You can't hide anything from them.

Dave Schramm  45:25

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, man.

Liz Hale  45:28

No, I get away with nothing. That is so true. One last question, in end one might be divorced or might be discouraged. What advice do you have for that person who might just be thinking marriage is just not cutout for me?

Casey Caston  45:42

No one wants to live a life with regret. And I would say, you know what, you owe it to yourself, to start working on bettering yourself. Because, Meygan had all rights to walk away and say, I'm done, and I'm walking out.  I wasn't participating, I was a stick in the mud. But she gave me the hope and inspiration to work on myself by going on her own journey. Now, I wish it was me. It's not, it was Meygan, who made that courageous decision. So somebody who's sitting there on the fence and going, you know, this is hopeless. You know, you need to give yourself time to work on yourself, to work on your insecurities, to gain more self-awareness of spousal awareness, so that you can start building that confidence in yourself. Confidence is all about trusting yourself. And if we have toxic scripts, things like I'm not good enough, I'm not pretty enough, I'm not worthy enough, then we're not going to trust ourselves because of that scripting. So, when you grow in confidence, then you start setting these healthy boundaries. Boundaries are like fences, right? We protect what's good, and we protect from the outside and the negativity coming in. They hit that boundary wall, and what that person that's coming up against that boundary wall is going to realize, wow, like, I can't just treat this person the way I used to anymore. That right there, when I saw that in Megan, and I saw who she became, it was something very aspirational and inspirational and gave me hope. It gave me the courage to embark on my own journey.

Meygan Caston  47:34

I would tell that person who's divorced, I would say, be sure to heal. You know, it's trauma and divorce is trauma, don't minimize it. Don't make excuses. Don't feel bad, that you're still angry or sad or confused. The best thing you could do is to go see a therapist and talk with a safe friend. Stay single for a little bit really evaluate, did I miss the warning signs? Did I show up? Well, what could I do to improve? Forgive yourself? No, because I think a lot of people who get divorced never really forgive themselves. Then they move into another relationship eventually. They carry that baggage that unforgiveness with them. I think that is something I would say, I don't think enough divorcees go through the healing process. If you're like, I don't know where to start, that's why therapists would walk you through that. There is hope. You can heal and there are a lot of people who are divorced, who are not, still resentful towards their ex, and they don't want them to die. They can actually see them and hope for good things for them. Because that's forgiveness. So, forgive yourself. Forgive your ex. Then on top of it, of course, just go through the healing journey. It's worth it.

Dave Schramm  48:51

Yeah, so good. Wow. Megan, Casey, you guys have been awesome. It's given us so much good content and places to go and tools. Tell us a one more time where listeners can go to find out more information. What's your website?

Casey Caston  49:08

Go visit marriage365.com. You can find us also on Instagram, Facebook, and Tik Tok. But our main website has a ton of content and that's actually how, if you go to marriage365.com, you can learn more about our membership.

Dave Schramm  49:24

Awesome, fantastic, we'd like to wrap up every episode with a takeaway of the day. So, let me ask each of you just 30 seconds or so what is your racked up, little takeaway of the day, that you can give listeners?

Meygan Caston  49:39

This is typically us who wants to go first? Because we usually want to go first. So, I try to be really polite and say babe, would you like to go first?

Casey Caston  49:48

Yeah, but their competitive nature is like to just go at the same time.

Meygan Caston  49:52

Except for in the bedroom. I always go first.

Casey Caston  49:54

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

Meygan Caston  49:57

I had to throw that in there.

Casey Caston  49:58

You're vulnerable.

Meygan Caston  49:58

Okay. Although, I would say my takeaway is, even though, you know, I'm in a healthier place than I ever have been. I think that it's even a good reminder for me as a marriage expert, there is always things I need to work on and improve on. That doesn't mean that I'm looking for perfection. I'm a recovering perfectionist, that it's a reminder that progress, and even a little bit of progress is better than nothing. I really believe with my whole heart that if every single person listening, said, what is one thing I'm going to do today, or this week, where I can progress, I think that there would be happier people walking around. I think there'd be people full of more confidence and joy. Because, again, the focus is on themselves and things that they can control. Can't control anybody else. I hate that. I wish I could. That'd be my takeaway.

Dave Schramm  51:03

That's great.

Casey Caston  51:05

Asking, like looking forward in the future?

Meygan Caston  51:08

How can I progress?

Meygan Caston  51:09

Okay, so I'm going to do the opposite. I'm going to look in the rearview mirror, I use the word reflection. As a company, we're in a season of reflection of what we've accomplished in the past seven years, and even looking into the future how our business is changing. So collectively, we're in a season of reflection. I'm part of a business owners’ group, and we spend once a month we spend time and reflection, I think just asking this question, how's it working out for you? I think that's a question a lot of us avoid. Because we're afraid of the answer. If we really take a moment and take inventory, how's it working out and it's not working out? Then guess what I have to do?

Meygan Caston  51:59

Change, change?

Casey Caston  52:00

I have to do something. So that's a an avoider. You really are an avoider listening to this. Be brave, feel the fear? Face that answer, that question. But how's this working out? Are we connecting? Do I feel my like, love tanks filled up? Do I feel like I'm showing up as a spouse in a healthy way? Because if you are not, that means you have to do something about it, and so, reflection.

Dave Schramm  52:31

Yeah, man, that's great. Awesome, Liz, tell us your takeaway today.

Liz Hale  52:37

Well, you know, I love that whole thing. Casey, you kind of took the words right out of my mouth. But just that when we're stuck in the demise of marriage, and we're stuck in gridlock, it just takes one of us to say, okay, what about me, looking at the person in the mirror saying, I got to get this together? I can go to therapy, I can learn about me, how do I make this work? How do I make it better? It just, changes, it takes one person to change the dance in marriage. So beautifully done, Casey, and Meygan, Dave, and your takeaway?

Dave Schramm  53:04

Yeah, there's been so much I loved the idea. And you mentioned Casey, Megan, about this intentionality, this this mindful self-awareness, this intentionality, this planning ahead of time. I love the date night.  I'm a huge fan of date night. Not talking about kids, money, or work and then putting away your phone for the entire day just focusing on each other. So, I love that making time to connect, just one on one, because research shows it's only about 44 minutes is about all that we get as far as one on one-time, other research shows it's even shorter than that. So, making the most of that planning ahead to intentionally connect with each other.

Dave Schramm  53:43

Wow. Again, thanks so much, Casey, Meygan, for joining us here on Stronger Marriage Connection podcast. So much. So many tips and tools and things that you shared with us. We're grateful to have you on. Thanks for joining us today.

Meygan Caston 53:58

It was so much fun. We got to do this again.

Dave Schramm  54:00

Let's do it again. Let's do it. Let's actually do it on singles. I love the kind of the thought process and so much that we could do for those who are singles, even those who are divorced, kind of on that whole lifespan. So, I love that thought. So, we'll bring you back in and let's do that.

Casey Caston  54:16

I want to say thank you, Dave and Liz for being on a mission to help other families strengthen their relationship, giving them tools and resources. So, appreciate you guys.

Liz Hale  54:26

Our honor, and thank you too.

Dave Schramm  54:29

Yeah. Hey, before we let you guys go tell us more time. Where can people go to learn more about you guys?

Casey Caston  54:36

You guys can visit us at marriage365.com, where you can learn more about membership. You can download our mobile app on the Apple Store and Google Play store. You can find us also on Instagram and Facebook and Tik Tok.

Dave Schramm  54:52

 Awesome, man. Well, thanks again, you guys and for our listeners. We'll see you next time. Bye bye

Dave Schramm  55:00

Thanks for joining us today. Hey, do us a favor and take a few minutes to subscribe to our podcasts and the Utah Marriage Commission YouTube channel where you can watch this and every episode of the show. When you hit the like button and leave a comment, your feedback helps us improve the show. Don't forget to share this episode with a friend. You can also follow and connect with us on Instagram, at StrongerMarriageLife and on Facebook at StrongerMarriage. Be sure to share with us what topics you want us to explore or what you loved about today's episode. If you want even more resources to improve your relationship connection, visit our website, strongermarriage.org where you'll find free workshops, webinars, relationships, surveys and more.

Dave Schramm  55:42

Each episode of Stronger Marriage Connection is hosted and sponsored by the Utah Marriage Commission at Utah State University. Finally, a big thanks to our producers Rex Polanis, Kierston Wilson and the team at Utah State University and you, our audience. You make this show possible.