201: What Is Really Hiding Behind Our Initial Emotions

Podcast Guest: Ben Kroff

November 2nd, 2026

201 Ben

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In this Episode

In this episode of Stronger Marriage Connection, Dr. Dave Schramm and Dr. Liz Hale welcome Ben Kroff, a licensed marriage and family therapist and certified Emotionally Focused Couples Therapist (EFT), to explore what's really happening beneath the surface of our strongest emotions. Why do couples keep having the same arguments? What is anger trying to tell us? And how can we respond with understanding instead of defensiveness?

Ben explains how our attachment needs, past experiences, and fears of rejection or disconnection can influence the way we react to our partners. He shares practical ways to slow down during conflict, recognize the deeper emotions hiding behind anger and frustration, and create greater emotional safety in marriage. From learning to recognize negative relationship patterns to using his memorable "Blue Frog" technique, Ben reminds us that the goal isn't to eliminate conflict but to understand the needs behind it. When couples learn to look beyond each other's reactions and respond with empathy, even difficult conversations can become opportunities for greater connection.

“The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.”

Chapters

00:00 – Understanding Emotions and Attachment
01:21 – Welcome to Stronger Marriage Connection
03:35 – Meet Marriage Therapist Ben Kroff
05:28 – What Is Emotionally Focused Therapy?
06:58 – Understanding Our Emotional Reactions
08:10 – How Childhood Shapes Our Relationships
09:04 – Understanding the Three Attachment Styles
09:51 – Don't Chase, Don't Run
11:18 – Why Emotional Safety Matters
15:14 – Why Couples Repeat the Same Arguments
16:37 – Focus on Patterns, Not Problems
17:58 – The Needs Beneath Relationship Conflict
18:23 – Are You There for Me?
19:37 – Breaking the Cycle of Blame
21:30 – Exploring Family History and Attachment
23:58 – How Childhood Wounds Resurface
25:19 – Understanding Our Younger Emotional Selves
27:28 – Sharing Vulnerability Instead of Blame
29:01 – What's Really Hiding Behind Anger?
30:39 – Anger Is a Messenger
31:04 – Identifying the Deeper Emotional Need
34:06 – Looking Beneath the Surface of Anger
36:20 – Creating Greater Emotional Safety
37:09 – Balancing Compassion With Healthy Boundaries
39:07 – Using Your Google Translate Ears
41:16 – Why Conflict Isn't Always Bad
43:16 – The Ping Pong Lesson About Anger
47:36 – Helping Your Partner Feel Seen
49:37 – Understanding the Blue Frog Technique
51:20 – Stop Defending, Start Understanding
53:55 – Responding to Your Partner's Experience
55:53 – Where to Find Ben Kroff
57:15 – Keys to a Stronger Marriage
58:25 – The Power of Appreciation
01:01:08 – Takeaway of the Day
01:04:42 – Final Thoughts and Farewell

Insights

Ben Kroff: The key to a stronger marriage connection is acceptance. When your partner feels accepted, understood, and appreciated for who they are, it creates the emotional safety needed for growth. Rather than trying to change or correct your spouse, recognize their efforts, acknowledge their pain, and celebrate the good you see in them. Acceptance doesn't mean giving up on improvement. It means creating a relationship where both partners feel safe enough to be themselves while continuing to grow together.
Liz Hale: One of the most powerful ways to respond to a struggling partner is with empathy rather than criticism. When someone loses their temper or reacts in a way they regret, try recognizing that their behavior may not reflect who they truly want to be. A simple statement like "I know you didn't mean to do that" can help soften defensiveness and open the door to understanding. By remembering the good in our partners, even during difficult moments, we can create more opportunities for compassion, repair, and connection. This approach works alongside healthy boundaries, not in place of them.
Dave Schramm: When anger shows up in a relationship, remember that there is often something deeper underneath it. Behind frustration, criticism, or defensiveness may be feelings of hurt, fear, embarrassment, rejection, or a desire to feel seen and understood. Instead of immediately reacting to your partner's tone or behavior, pause and look beneath the anger to discover the unmet emotional need. When couples learn to respond to those deeper feelings rather than getting caught in the same cycle of negative reactions, they can turn conflict into an opportunity for greater understanding and intimacy.

About Ben Kroff:

Ben Kroff is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, AAMFT Approved Supervisor, and Certified Emotionally Focused Couples Therapist. He is the co-owner and Clinical Director of The EFT Clinic, with locations in Lehi, Salt Lake City, and Bountiful, Utah. Ben specializes in helping couples, individuals, and families navigate conflict, strengthen emotional connections, and build healthier relationships. He also serves on the board of Northern Utah Emotionally Focused Therapy (NUEFT), supporting professional training and development for therapists.

Outside of his clinical work, Ben is an avid runner who has completed the Boston Marathon and the Grand Canyon Rim-to-Rim adventure alongside his wife, Chelsi. Married for 27 years, Ben and Chelsi have three children and two dogs. Ben also has a book in the works—or at least in his head—titled Help! My Wife Is Mad as Heck and It's All My Fault: A Book for Men.

Ben's Resources:

Website: https://theeftclinic.com/
Website: https://theeftclinic.com/ben-kroff
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theeftclinic
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61574769984794
X: https://x.com/theeftclinic

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Dr. Dave Schramm:

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Website: https://drdavespeaks.com

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Dr. Liz Hale:

Website: http://www.drlizhale.com/

Rex Polanis:

Website: https://www.drawn-in-media.com/