165: Untangling Codependency in Marriage
Podcast Guest: Payton Holt
Janurary 26th, 2026
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In this Episode
In this episode of Stronger Marriage Connection, Dr. Dave Schramm talks with therapist Payton Holt about codependency—what it is, how it shows up in couples and parenting, and how healing happens through boundaries, self-esteem, self-compassion, and empathy-first communication.
“The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.”
Time Markers
00:03 – What codependency is, why it matters
01:07 – Dave introduces Payton Holt
02:03 – Codependency defined (beyond buzzwords)
02:24 – Not in DSM; still common
03:40 – Two-part definition of codependency
04:55 – Pia Mellody’s five core symptoms
07:43 – “Fix-it” impulse and emotional managing
09:05 – The codependency cycle explained
10:25 – When help is rejected
11:15 – When help is accepted
12:42 – Why it feels like parenting
14:04 – Overhelping becomes enabling
15:35 – Parenting tension: harsh vs soft
16:55 – Taking feedback personally
18:10 – Shame spirals and eggshells
19:53 – “Secret helping” creates wedges
21:03 – Roots: swinging generational extremes
22:30 – Value tied to performance
24:27 – What healing can look like
25:23 – Step one: acknowledge the pattern
26:40 – Shame makes facing it hard
27:30 – Self-compassion as a foundation
28:30 – Rebuilding self-esteem from inside-out
29:45 – Boundaries and learning “no”
31:37 – Change is hard; expect slips
32:45 – Compassion helps you recover faster
33:31 – Supporting a partner’s progress
34:06 – Learn it together; be patient
35:10 – Create “support language” as a couple
35:45 – Use: “The story I’m telling myself”
37:56 – Timeline: often months, not weeks
40:06 – Relationship Institute services and groups
42:00 – Key to connection: empathy first
43:23 – Takeaway: there’s real hope
Insights
Payton's
Codependency can feel overwhelming, but there’s real hope. When you recognize the patterns blocking deeper connection, you can start healing. With treatment and supportive resources, you’re not alone—and relationships can get better.
Dave’s
If this conversation resonates, even after years of patterns, there’s still time to change and heal. With effort, support, and good resources, relationships—partners and families—can grow stronger and healthier.
About Payton
Payton Holt a licensed marriage and family therapist and the owner and director of The Relationship Institute, a private practice based in Spanish Fork. Payton’s work focuses on helping couples and individuals untangle patterns of codependency, roommate syndrome, and the often-polarized worlds of high conflict and total conflict avoidance. Payton believes every relationship has the potential to grow when partners learn to communicate with curiosity, compassion, and courage.
Payton offer’s quarterly community workshops (sometimes free!) for couples wanting to address Roommate Syndrome or seeking to improve their communication. His next workshop is scheduled for January 30th. Lastly, he facilitates a women’s group aimed at healing from codependency. The next round of this group will begin in February.
Outside the therapy room, you’ll probably find Payton on the football field or basketball court, fishing somewhere quiet, or indulging in a bucket of movie theatre popcorn. Payton also shares life with his beautiful wife and three amazing kids, who continually remind hm that love—and laughter—are the real work of any good relationship.
Payton's Resources
https://www.relationshipinstituteutah.com/ Visit our site for FREE relationship resources and regular giveaways:
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