139: Discernment Counseling: For Couples On The Brink

Podcast Guest: Steve Harris

June 30th, 2025

139: Steve

Listen to the Show:

In this Episode

In this episode of Stronger Marriage Connection, Dr. Steve Harris, a leading expert in marriage and family therapy, shares powerful insights about discernment counseling—a structured approach for couples on the brink of divorce. Unlike traditional therapy, this method helps “mixed-agenda” couples (one leaning in, one leaning out) gain clarity and confidence about the future of their relationship. Dr. Harris breaks down the goals, process, and outcomes of discernment counseling, including the three potential paths couples may choose. Whether you're a therapist, a concerned loved one, or someone questioning the future of your marriage, this episode offers research-based hope, structure, and guidance.

“The opinions, findings, conclusions, and recommendations expressed in this podcast do not necessarily reflect the views of the Utah Marriage Commission.”

Time Markers

00:03 – Welcome and intro to Dr. Steve Harris

02:08 – What is discernment counseling?

03:46 – Origins and research behind the model

05:00 – Why couples therapy doesn’t always work

06:15 – Key difference: clarity vs. connection

07:10 – Who discernment counseling is (and isn't) for

09:31 – Making space for ambivalence

10:22 – When couples therapy may not help

11:29 – Three possible paths for couples

13:25 – Talking openly about divorce as an option

15:12 – What a discernment session looks like

17:18 – Role of children in decision-making

20:00 – Exploring the best of times

20:31 – What your partner doesn’t get

21:19 – One-on-one work during sessions

22:24 – Do couples shift to therapy afterward?

23:21 – Personal agenda for change

25:00 – Main job of a discernment counselor

27:26 – Sitting with ambivalence is key

28:11 – Outcomes and success rates

30:00 – Status quo as a real choice

32:20 – Story of choosing the status quo

33:31 – Helping individuals see their role

35:00 – Blame vs. self-awareness

36:26 – How to find a discernment counselor

39:06 – Helpful websites and training options

40:13 – Key takeaway: Divorce isn’t inevitable

42:11 – When is discernment counseling not the right fit?

43:34 – Final thoughts and thank yous

Insights

Steve’s

Just because someone is thinking about divorce doesn’t mean it’s inevitable—many couples can still find clarity and choose to stay together.

Liz’s

Discernment counseling isn’t about creating change—it’s about gaining clarity and confidence. It offers a safe space to sit with ambivalence and not have all the answers right away.

Dave’s

Thinking about divorce is more common than people realize, and it doesn’t always mean a marriage is over. Many couples ride an emotional roller coaster. Discernment counseling helps normalize these thoughts and offers support for those not ready for therapy but needing clarity.

About Steve:

Steven M. Harris, PhD, LMFT, received his master’s and doctoral degrees in Marriage and Family Therapy from Syracuse University.  He is a Professor in the Department of Family Social Science at the University of Minnesota. Prior to living in Minnesota he was on faculty at Texas Tech University for 13 years. While in Texas Dr. Harris chaired the Research Advisory Group for the Texas Healthy Marriage Initiative and was recognized for Outstanding Service by the Texas Health and Human Service Commission (2008). He has been practicing as a family therapist for over 30 years. He is the past Editor for the Journal of Marital and Family Therapy. Dr. Harris is the author of over 95 peer-reviewed articles and book chapters, has written four books, and has contributed a variety of other publications to the field throughout his career. Dr. Harris also serves as the Director of the Minnesota Couples on the Brink Project at the University of Minnesota. He conducts research on the many facets of divorce decision-making and the Discernment Counseling approach he and his colleague, Dr. William J. Doherty, pioneered at the University of Minnesota. They are currently working on a revision of their first textbook on Discernment Counseling (originally published in April 2017) that will be released in 2026. 

Steve's Resources:

https://discernmentcounseling.com/

https://innovation.umn.edu/mncouplesonthebrink

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