AgWellness Episode 3: Interview with Karl Hoopes

Josh Dallin 0:09
Well, good morning, everybody. This is our episode three of our ag wellness Podcast. I'm Josh Dallin. I'm joined by my colleague Jake Hadfield. And we are excited to have as a guest today on our show, Dr. Karl Hoopes from Utah State University. We are thrilled to be able to have him talk a little bit about some different avenues and aspects of mental health and programs that are available to assist all of us. So welcome, Dr. Hoopes. Thanks so much for being with us. And would you mind just giving our listeners just a little bit of background of who you are and what you do?

Dr. Karl Hoopes 0:50
Sure, I'd love to. Well, I grew up in Star Valley, Wyoming. I grew up on a small dairy farm. But horses were a huge part of my life from a very young age. I grew to love them, I grew to where I could do almost anything I wanted. I grew up showing in 4-H and FFA. At an early age, I had a very strong desire to become a jockey. And so I worked a lot with race horses and with chariot racing during the wintertime. And I still I still enjoy the race horses today. After high school, I went to the University of Wyoming and then later to Colorado State University, where I earned my doctorate of veterinary medicine and became a veterinarian after I graduated vet school in 2003, and I came directly here to Cache Valley. And I went to work in a very small rural practice in Richmond, Utah, called Valley veterinary services. I really loved being a veterinarian, I truly enjoyed working with people going out to their farms, and building that relationship with my clients. But also with with the animals, horses continued to be my passion, what I truly enjoyed. And what I what I really enjoyed about horses is I enjoyed the relationship that I could build with them. They're very personable, and they're, they're able to trust you. And you you are able to see those individual personalities in each of those horses. And 2015, I came to work at Utah State University, as the Equine Extension Specialist. And extension is a huge part of what we do here at Utah State where we we reach back out to the community with different programs to help help not only people but the animals in the state. And as a large portion of that is is for me, it's horses. And so here at Utah State, I do a lot with extension, but I also do a lot of teaching in the pre-vet and veterinary school. So anyway, as I came to Utah State University, they asked me to start some some programs that I could take throughout the state that would help benefit the people of the state. And so from there, we developed a lot of programs. It's kind of interesting, though, that as a veterinarian, I started some programs that were with mental health and wellness. I work a lot with horses, and we as we understand they're, they're very helpful in mental health and wellness. And so those are some of the programs we started.

Jake Hadfield 3:37
Perfect. Well, Karl, that was great introduction there for you. Can you tell us a little bit specifically the program that I think we wanted to talk a little bit more in depth about? Is your Ride Utah program?
Could you talk about how that started and kind of the goals of that program and kind of where it is and what's going on with it now?

Dr. Karl Hoopes 3:57
Yeah, I'd love to. When I came to work at Utah State University there in 2015, Dean White, the dean of our the College of Ag and Applied Sciences, told me says you got to start some programs, he said, but focus on things that you're good at, focus on things that you care about, and that you're passionate about. And those are things that will really help. And I have done a lot of trail rides in my life and I really enjoy them. I've taken a lot of different groups out. And as a result, I started thinking about doing trail rides around the state, for groups of individuals that would need that. And when I say need that, that would benefit emotionally in mental health would benefit from that. And remember, I'm a veterinarian. I don't, I'm not a mental health professional. And so I don't profess to understand everything that they do or that they understand but I have an avenue that I could create this program. And so they In the fall of 2015, we did our first ride. And it was really important to me that we focus on the military personnel, veterans, individuals that have has served our country have come home and, and a lot of them have to deal with mental health, illness or mental health issues, ranging from anxiety to to PTSD to other issues that they they have acquired because of their service in the military. And so that first ride we took out was in October, actually, of 2015. And we went up, Cherry Peak, when we invited the ROTC from Utah State University. It was a wonderful experience, we had a lot of good people there. And I also, I had a really big desire to invite their spouses. So it was a husband and wife experience. And we we took them on a two hour trail ride, we used horses from the university that ride. And then we had an individual that cooked him a Dutch oven dinner. And then we sat down and had a few, well, it would have been a half hour discussion about the five love languages that that has been written about, and the communication that needs to occur between spouses. And that experience was a wonderful experience. We, we learned a lot. It was our first ride and, and from that ride, we've been able to develop a program. And we've made quite a few changes, and we've tweaked it, and we've tried to make it better for for all of the individuals throughout the state. But that was our first ride in 2015. And we've we've held that ever since that program ever since we average anywhere from 20 to 30 rides every and I don't say summer because we we've gone from April till even in December, we've done some rides throughout the entire State of Utah. And so we have this season and right now is our offseason, January's a hard time to get our horses out on some trails throughout Utah. But we go from about 20 to 30 rides each year, we have had well over I think the last count well over 1200 participants in Ride Utah over that, that period of time. And we've we've tweaked it a few times, we've changed a few things, it's no longer just a husband and wife. It's a military personnel plus one, they can invite whoever they want, whether that's a spouse, whether it's a child, or a mother or father or a significant other, we've had all kinds and all aspects of that. And it's really neat, because a lot of times it's a parent that grew up with horses that has not had that opportunity to, to share with their children. And so this activity comes up and they're like, oh, I want my kids to be able to experience what I experienced as I was growing up with a horse. So what we do, we we meet at trails throughout all of Utah, ranging from Cache Valley to Washington County, to Grand County, with Moab. And everywhere in between. I know that both both Josh, you and Jacob both participated with me on rides in Box Elder County, and Cache County and, and it's really a good experience. But we need it at the trailhead. And, and before the ride, we always make sure we go on the trail before the event, we make sure the horses are already we make sure the trails cleared, and that it's an appropriate level of riding for those individuals. But we go on a two hour trail ride, everybody meets we we get them on the horse, we get the saddle fit for them. And we if they want to wear a helmet, we supply a helmet for them. And then we go on that ride. And if we just limit it to two hours, because if we go more than two hours it it seems to be a little hard for those individuals that have not ridden much in their life. Then we get back and we always have a meal. We have a really good meal with them. Whether it's a sandwich or a hot meal, sometimes we do dutch oven. A lot of those meals are donated by local businesses and we really appreciate the support that they give our military personnel. And then after the ride we always focus we have a discussion after the after the meal in fact, and it can be anywhere from 10 minutes to 20 minutes, and it can go longer depending on participation and what the individuals there want to do. But that discussion can focus on a lot of different things anywhere from family issues to mental health, health issues to different things that they are experiencing. And they're trying to come back into to civilian life after a deployment or anything of that nature. And they're just a lot of things. And I always tried to have a mental health professional at that meeting. And they're there to help. They're there to guide that discussion. And that mental health professional, I tried to make sure they've always had experience with military personnel. So that it's kind of a different feel for each ride with the different people that are there. Always. You join, you gain camaraderie when you're on that ride. Most of the time, it's a mixed group of individuals, meaning they're, they've never met each other not sometimes they have, but a lot of times, they they didn't plan to all be there at the same time. And sometimes it's old friends getting back together, sometimes it's their new friends. And so after the ride, we have a really good discussion, everybody's had a good experience. And it really seems to take its own life and go from there. But that's kind of the basic outline of what Ride Utah is.

Josh Dallin 11:13
We appreciate you giving us an overview, Karl, and as you mentioned, Jake, and I have both had the opportunity to come with you. And it is such a neat experience to to see what what you've just described and be a part of it. I want to dive in a little bit with some maybe more in depth questions to kind of pick your brain a little bit about that experience in those programs. And the first question I want to ask is, why do you think, Karl, that working with horses, is helpful for these veterans, and others who might be struggling with mental health concerns?

Dr. Karl Hoopes 11:53
That is an interesting question. And I have asked myself that many times. And where I always go back to is what do horses do for me? How do they make me feel? And why? Why do I enjoy working with them? And then why do I enjoy sharing that with others. So what I've come up with horses, horses come with no predetermined biases. They don't come with an idea that I don't like this person. Because of this, I don't like this person, because of that. Everything that they come with. And that relationship you develop is what you as an individual bring to the table and your willingness to work with them. And they gain a trust in you, these horses look to you for guidance, they look to you for security, they are a herd animal, and they have to join up, they have to have that relationship, or they're threatened, they feel threatened. And so if you come with a bad attitude, if you come with anxiety, they're able to recognize that. And they don't always react in a threatening way, in a threatened way. They've learned to react in a way that, that they're able to help. But as I interact with the horses, I am able to build that relationship with them. It is very therapeutic. It makes me feel good inside. It forces me to live in the moment. And a lot of our mental health professionals talk about mindfulness. And they talk about being in the moment that when you're on a horse, or when you're working with a horse, you can't be worried about what's going to come up in the next few days. You have to be focused on the here and now. You can't have regrets about what happened in the past. You have to be focused here. And now. And what's happening. There's a lot of other things they talk about. There's a lot of other the movement of the horse, the touching of a living animal. A lot of individuals and I've worked with with several groups, not just the military. I've worked with some young girls in groups, group homes, where they use horses to help those young girls and a lot of the description for them is a lot of times these young girls have never had love reciprocated to them. And when you show a horse love, they are going to reciprocate that back. They are going to show you affection. Whether that's physical touch and a lot of times out horse wants you touching them. You know petting them stroking their mane stroking their neck. grooming them is a big part with these horses. And as you show that horse that love they're going to reciprocate it back to you. And many times with those young girls they've been Never had a living being reciprocate that love back to them. And so they're able to experience that. And they're able to feel that love that That horse is going to give you on our trail rides, if we get back to Ride Utah, these horses that we we put these veterans on, are very well trained, they're very well conditioned to these rides, and they actually truly enjoy their job, they love being out on the trail, and they love going up the trail. If they didn't, then they wouldn't work for a trail ride horse, they would have a different, different job in life. But for us, as we as we use them, they enjoy that ride as much as the individuals. And it's fun for those people that are riding them to see their personalities to see why that horse enjoys the ride. And it's very therapeutic in itself. But I guess the big answer is being in the moment. And that that seems to really be therapeutic and beneficial for individuals. But also the relationship that you build with those horses, as you're working with them is very therapeutic and very rewarding as an individual.

Jake Hadfield 16:16
Thanks, Karl, I and I think you've hit it on the head. And honestly, that was kind of where we are leading to next was kind of a question about that mindfulness and being present. So I think you answered that perfectly. I guess my question for you is, and you obviously have learned this through, you know, being around horses, relationships with horses, to you know, gain that mindfulness thinking about the here and now, how would you what would you say to someone who doesn't have horses, though, or doesn't have the opportunity? How would you recommend them trying to find that in their lives?

Dr. Karl Hoopes 16:47
And you know, we we talk to a lot of veterans that that is exactly what it is they, they have that desire to work with horses, they have that desire to share it with their family, but they don't have opportunities to work with horses. Now, I'm not saying horses are for everyone, they work for me, they work for a lot of individuals. But there, there are other things that you can do for that mindfulness. And that's why a lot of people own pets, whether it's dogs, whether it's cats, whether it's even even cows, individuals have cows as pets. But birds seem to be very good as well, because pet birds seem to live a lot longer than our dogs and our cats. But anyway, if you feel like the horses, what should be happening for you, and you have that connection. And that's what you would like to desire. There's a lot of different ways to go about getting that experience. There are several boarding facilities all around the state of Utah. And there are places that you can volunteer to be able to go and have that experience with horses. As a veterinarian, there's always individuals that would like to volunteer to come help us with our animals, or to get a job working at that facility. We have other opportunities other than ride Utah around the state. And here at USU. We've started several programs, we have a a human equine bond department, and we used to call it Equine Assisted activities and therapies. But they changed the name of it so that it really describes what's happening to human equine bond. And we have an opportunity for students to learn how to be equine professionals to help in that therapeutic or mental health setting where horses help help us with that mental health professional that's involved. We have several programs where individuals from the community can come and volunteer and be here and have this experience. We have several programs up and running, where we have the VA coming out and bringing individuals that are in their addiction recovery units I in inpatient addiction recovery, and we they come up once a while twice a month now to USU. And they have that equine experience. We've got a director named Judy Smith that's in charge of that program. And she and I have worked very closely establishing this relationship with the VA and it's been very rewarding to see these individuals come and and we're seeing some very positive results. Even with the addiction recovery, we've been able to do some research projects with them and very excited about the results that we're seeing. It's growing here at USU. Even so much that we have have expanded the point where we we've got to build our own facility for the the human equine bond. And it's under construction right now. We're hoping by this summer that we are able to be in that and we're expanding it's it's growing it's pretty unique, but if you're somebody looking for that, that that you don't have that opportunity. There are a lot of 4-H programs. And and I know Jake and Josh, both are, are very heavily involved with the 4-H programs for youth. But it's an opportunity they have a horseless 4-H program that has been developed where individuals can learn about horses. Now, I do believe that that there's a huge therapeutic effect by touching and hands on. But for individuals that are not able to do that, you can get involved in several of those horseless programs. But the 4-H programs are primarily for the youth, there are several adult opportunities out there, whether it's a boarding facilities, or riding facilities are several places that teach riding lessons, just do a local search, and you can always find those opportunities.

Josh Dallin 20:58
Thanks, Karl. So I would like to if you if you wouldn't mind, I know that you probably have a bag full of positive outcomes and things that have happened from, you know, positive things and stories that have come from this program. But I wondered if you wouldn't mind sharing with us some of your most favorite outcomes, maybe your favorite stories that have come from the program and, and just to give our listeners an idea of kind of the, the end result.

Dr. Karl Hoopes 21:28
I would love to. And yeah, like you say, I do have a mouthful, I could talk all day. And I I know you guys have listened to me quite a few times. But some things that I would like to share. A lot of times on these rides, it becomes very emotional, and it becomes very personal for individuals and, and we try to protect those individuals and those experiences, but a few of them I've been allowed to share. I have gained a lot of personal strong personal friendships with veterans on these with these experiences. We
 had an individual to well, wells now three years ago. So it would have been the summer of 2000... oh it was 2020. So two summers ago COVID had shut everything down. And he was having a hard, hard time with his PTSD. And he had actually just gone through a divorce a few months earlier. And then he was isolated. And it was really, really hard. And he was struggling emotionally and with his mental health. He saw this, I don't know how he saw the advertisement for the ride. But he signed up for a ride in Beaver, Utah. And he made that trip down. And it was a pretty, pretty neat ride. And I was able to get to know Him. And nothing really unique happened at that point in time. Except that he really enjoyed it. He felt comfortable. And he wanted to come back. And so he came back again later in that summer.
And then the next year, so 2021 We had a ride in in May. And he came on that ride. And and he truly enjoyed it. Later in the summer. He came on a ride and he brought a woman with him. It was an individual that he had met a few months ago. They they played pickleball together. And he came on that ride. And that was the first day he kissed her. It was a neat experience. And I was actually here in Cache Valley. And it was a beautiful ride. And they really had a neat experience. Later in the summer, he went on another ride with us. And he proposed to his wife to this individual on the way home. And then later in the summer he came down to Beaver. And they were engaged. I knew they are engaged. But we came down to the ride. And he called me and said I'm going to be 20 minutes late. And I said okay, that's fine. We're all here. We're just waiting. It's no big deal. Well, when he got there, they were only 15 minutes late. But he told us that on the way down to the ride, they decided to get married. So they had called the judge and they they had gone to the judge in Beaver had gotten married at the you know, and it was a year after he had come on his first ride. It was a really neat experience. And he wrote me a letter. And and he's a very good friend of mine right now. But he told us that Ride Utah saved his life. At that point he had been thinking that his life was not worth living any longer. And we gave him an experience. And we showed him that there are other individuals that were going through the same problems he was and that there were others out there that cared enough to help him and he has come become a very close friend of mine. And I really appreciate that relationship. Another situation, I normally require that there be a veteran or a military personnel on the ride with a spouse or with their their added their plus one. And I got a phone call one day and this woman said, Hey, I see this is for military plus one, do we have to have our military person on or participate in the ride with with us? And I said, Well, yes, that is a rule. And she said, well, then that that leaves us out because my husband was killed in action a month ago. And, and, and so he can't come on the ride. And I wanted to bring my daughter on the ridein that was coming up. And I said Well, I'm in charge. So I can bend the rules, however I want. And I said, you're, you're qualified, you bring your daughter in, you come. And this was a ride here in Wellsville, it was a really neat experience. And we put them on the horses, and we were going up the trail, and the little girl would have been oh 13-14 years old. And she, she would hold the horse back, let there be some distance between her and the person in front of her and then allow that horse to trot to keep up. And this little girl would just squeal and laugh and have delight. And she was having joy. And it was a little bit disruptive. I was up in the front of the group. And I was concerned that the squealing and the noise was taking away from another person's experience. And I didn't want that to happen. And I I had had some thoughts well, maybe I need to slip back with her and, and ask her to be quiet and not have that. Not squeal and laugh and and do that. And I didn't want her to take away from somebody else. And and I hadn't done it yet. And we got up on the trail. And we were up ahead of ways and so I stopped the let the horses rest I was in the lead. And this young girl's mother was right behind us. And there was a small group of us up ahead. And that little girl was trotting up and just squealing and laughing. And the mother turned to us up front and she says I hope you guys aren't aren't feeling bad about this or she's not disturbing anybody with that squealing. But that's the first time I've heard her laugh since her father died a few months ago. And I felt so small. I'm so glad I hadn't said anything to her. But another individual, a military veteran who had been in the service for a lot of years, turned to her and said, Ma'am, she's not bothering anybody. And we want to hear her laugh. And that was such a neat experience for me. And I'm sorry, I get emotional when I tell these stories each time I tell this one. But we have to we learned that it doesn't matter who it is. They're all family. They're all the military family. They've been through that experience. And that 13 year old little girl was just a much of the military family as those that had served for decades, because she had lost her dad. And that woman had lost her husband to the service. There's a lot of experiences. I don't know how many you want me to share. I could share some more if you'd like. But I don't know how much time you have.

Jake Hadfield 28:30
Well, I think we're going to have to stop there. But I do think that this work that you've done Karl is amazing. And like the stories that you share. I mean, it's really cool to see what can happen with this bond with animals with horses. And I just really thank you for doing this work and really putting in the time for this. Um, before we go. One thing I wanted to ask you is where can people find out more about this about Ride Utah or even about the other programs Utah State offers?

Dr. Karl Hoopes 29:03
Well, they can they can always try to get a hold of me through email and and I'm fine if you want to share my email as well. It's karl.hoopes@usu.edu So KARL dot HOOPES, H OO P ES@usu.edu. And you're more than welcome to email me also I have a I have a website, just Google USU Equine Extension, and it'll bring it to my website and that'll be an easy place for you to see the Ride Utah program and see the different events and we have a link there where you can go for the signup we use Eventbrite for the signups these rides are are still free of charge. I've never had to charge and hopefully we don't have to it is helpful for those that want to donate on that same page. There's a donation form so far. It's It's been a huge and wonderful experience to see the generosity of individuals that want to share these equine experiences. So much so that we've had individuals with dude ranches that donate 10 rides a year to the program. And it's it's, it's a wonderful experience, those would be the the best opportunities. As far as looking at some of our other programs here at USU email would be wonderful. And I can put you in, in contact with those individuals that need to or that can help you find the right place in the right opportunity. You can look at Judy Smith as well, Judy Smith at USU are Judy.smith@usu.edu. She She's the director of that program and does a wonderful job.

Josh Dallin 30:51
Well, Karl, we'd really like to, again, thank you for taking the time to share this amazing information with us this program the stories. This is of course, a wonderful avenue and a wonderful method for those that are dealing with life struggles to be able to find new purpose and find find a way to be able to cope and deal with some of those things that they're dealing with. And I appreciate you sharing those stories that I'm sure very relatable to those that are listening, and how this this program has made a difference. And as you mentioned, it's exciting to see Utah State University Extension, being able to expand and grow and fit the needs of multiple individuals through through these new programs. And so, again, we thank you so much for your time, and taking the taking time out of your busy busy schedule to meet with us. We greatly appreciate that. We'd like to remind all of our listeners that we will have a small tidbit of information from Dr. Ty Alder that will be here on the podcast following this interview. We encourage you to listen to that and his insight. And we also encourage you to look forward to our episode four which will be coming out shortly. Thanks again for your time. This has been our episode three of the Ag wellness podcast.

Ty Aller 32:22
Hello, and welcome to this episode's Mental Health Minute. My name is Dr. Ty Aller. And I'm a therapist and researcher at the Institute for Disability Research Policy and Practice at Utah State University. On this episode, we heard a lot about how folks that are interested in supporting their communities can come together and create groups that support our well be. And in this case, a really fun way of working with equine. We talked a lot this week about PTSD, or post traumatic stress disorder and anxiety based disorder in the context of folks that have been in the military. One thing I wanted to quickly draw your attention to though is that PTSD isn't owned by folks that have been in service. I've had the opportunity to work with numerous people throughout my career that don't have military backgrounds that experience PTSD. For instance, kiddos that have experienced child abuse and neglect, or individuals living in group homes that may have experienced unethical care. What the takeaways are, though, is that when people go through hard experiences in life that are traumatic, it can cause our bodies to experience, what we call re experiencing symptoms where they literally re experience the symptoms of the event. And they have, you know, adverse moods to it, maybe swinging from really high irritability and anger to really bad depression and guilt. And these symptoms are pervasive and often get in the way of the life the person wants to live. It was really exciting to hear how through the use of Equine Karl in his group was able to activate what we call a mechanism of change or said more simply something that actually helps people improve. And he mentioned this through the use of mindfulness. Well mindfulness, and what we call acceptance based processes are highlighted today and are evidence based care for PTSD. By coming into contact with the current moment, more fully and openly. Were able to kind of observe that intensity or maybe that intense anxiety rather than react to it. And in doing so it can help us a lot In our actions, with things we care about, like being kind or caring or consistent, and in doing so we're able to create these patterns of behavior that create a life we want to live. So for instance, some of these folks were able to get involved with the equine therapy. And through learning these mindfulness based experiences in the relationship with the horse, were able to see how their internal experience maybe that anxiety, maybe influencing others, because in doing so, with a horse, they're going to give you some pretty immediate feedback. I love this episode, because it showed how we're able to take therapy, and put it in communities in unique and collaborative ways that are more likely to reach groups that need them the most. One other topic that came up during this episode was the topic of grief. Grief, in some could just be considered a form of sadness. And to me, it's often a really strong emotional clue that hey, something or someone or some event was really important to you. And you may have recently just lost that grief can turn in to a long term depression that may require extra support from community resources, like therapy from equine therapy groups like discussed, or a combination of all of these. What I think's important though, is to recognize that these really strong emotional experiences that all humans tend to have are a normal part of the human condition. And one of our main goals of this project in this podcast is to just start a conversation, because as we saw today, in today's episode, by having that conversation, it can bring together a group that wants to provide support that can do so by teaching evidence based skills that can promote mental health. And they're just downright fun when we might be hurting. So thanks for joining us today. We hope you found the podcast useful, and we look forward to you joining us in our next episode. Talk to you soon.

Josh Dallin 37:24
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ag wellness podcast. Please subscribe wherever you get your podcast, visit our website at farm stress.us and connect with us on social media at AG wellness Utah. If you are experiencing stress, mental health concerns, or suicidal thoughts, or if you know someone who is, please contact these resources. As always, if it is an emergency, dial 911.

Crisis Lines

Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255 Crisis Text Line Text HOME to 741741

Crisis Response Network 1-800-203-CARE (2273)

SafeUT 833-372-3388 or download their app to use the chat feature

If you need help finding a mental health provider, here are some ways to get started:
Contact the person’s health insurance provider and ask about mental health professionals that are within the network.

Psychology Today Service Finder: On this website, you can search for therapists, psychiatrists, treatment centers and support groups in your area. www.psychologytoday.com/us

Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
• Here, you can find general information about mental health services in your area.
• findtreatment.samhsa.gov/

Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA)
• At this website, you can find health centers that offer more affordable options for people that do not have health insurance.
• https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/

U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
• This website can help if you have questions about insurance coverage for mental health.
• https://www.hhs.gov/programs/topic-sites/mental-health-parity/mental-health-and-addiction- insurance-help/index.html

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