AgWellness Episode 14: Interview with Kathie Supiano
Josh Dallin 00:10
Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 14 of our AgWellness Podcast. I'm Josh Dallin joined by my colleague Jake Hadfield. And we're excited to welcome today, Kathie Supiano, who is a mental health professional. And we're just excited to be able to get her insight and take on a lot of the things that are happening in the field of mental health. And also, maybe some observation points that she's seen, specifically in regards to our agricultural community. And so Kathie, thank you so much for being here. And welcome.
Kathie Supiano 0:45
Thank you. Thanks to both of you.
Josh Dallin 0:47
You bet - our first question, as we'd love for our listeners to be able to know a little bit more about you. So would you be able to introduce yourself and tell us what brought you in to the mental health profession?
Kathie Supiano 01:01
Yes, well, thank you. So you correctly introduced me as a mental health professional. My particular area of clinical practice as well as teaching is in the area of grief support, grief support, and in particular, people who've experienced traumatic grief. So I've done work in hospice and palliative care where we expect the death, but in recent years, have developed more attention to suicide, grief and overdose grief. So that's a little bit about my professional background. Personally, I, I will share and I am grateful for the chance to share it, I gravitated toward mental health because of my own family experience. My grandfather, and this would have been at the time of the Great Depression, my grandfather and grandmother lost their farm in northern Ohio during the Great Depression. And my my grandfather, whom I never knew, personally spiraled into depression, such that he was hospitalized, and he died in the Veterans Hospital in Battle Creek, Michigan, from intractable depression. This was a secret in my family until I was an adult, and caused enormous and hurtful shame in my grandmother's life in my mother's life, and in my aunts, and my aunt and uncle's life and their childhood, they were ostracized, they were shamed in their church. And it, it took incredible resiliency on my grandmother's part to raise her children during the depression and into World War Two. And so I could not be more honored to be included in this conversation today, I feel in a real way, I'm honoring my grandfather and my grandmother by having this conversation with you.
Jake Hadfield 03:12
Well, I think the struggles are the same that all humans around the world are facing now. But I think they may be experienced in a unique way in the agricultural community, most particularly. And, you know, it was a pleasure to talk with you both in advance of this and to sort of echo these themes that one of the biggest themes is uncertainty. I think, people who will farm and ranch and live in rural areas in ways that are not the same as people who live in urban areas. wake up every day with a continuous exposure to uncertainty and the weather, the prices of what you have to buy the prices for, what you'll what you'll get for what you produce. Every day, there is uncertainty. And we're also seen enormous changes in the land and water and, and all of these things that, you know, frankly, people like me can sort of end up taking for granted. So we know from a mental health point of view, that uncertainty creates additional wear wear and tension on the brain. The brain likes predictability, the brain likes familiarity. And so there's that backdrop and I'm going to call it uncertainty. I'm not going to call it anxiety IoT, but just that uncertainty every day that people have to live with. Now, I think the other thing that really positions the agricultural community, uniquely as well, and the only other community that I can think that resonates most precisely with this is the military and veteran community. And that is an emphasis on personal resiliency. Again, I mean, this is sort of hardwired into rural living, the idea that we actually and this is not a false or that we are strong, that we are capable, that we can do things on our own. And I think like so many human strengths, reliance on one strength can actually undermine us. And I think that resiliency and that independence, so just full disclosure, I'm from Michigan, and in Michigan, nobody ever uses the expression, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. And that's definitely a Western expression, and not in the cities. So I think that tends to reinforce an independence that on the one hand, we can be very proud of, but on the other hand, can leave us vulnerable to things like isolation, or perhaps, perhaps disproportionate concern on what others might might think about us. As you know, if you live in a city, it's pretty easy to hide it, all you have to do is blend into the crowd. In smaller communities, people know each other. And that's a strength. But it can also create a reluctance to expose our vulnerabilities to people that we have to face in the grocery store and face at church and, you know, face at their fair and face in the schoolyard every day. It's harder to it takes more of an effort to conceal struggles, and maybe a heightened desire to conceal struggles, because once you expose them, they're sort of out there.
Josh Dallin 07:18
Thank you so much for sharing that insight. And I think our next question, will maybe dive a little bit deeper into that insight and asking you how, how can those within our agriculture community be able to support others who may be struggling? You know, you talked a little bit about the struggles that we face if we're if we're dealing with these issues in our communities at church at the fair, those types of places. But what would be some advice you would have for our community of agricultural folks to be able to support those who who may be struggling?
Kathie Supiano 07:52
Well, that's a great question. Because we know regardless of the situation, that when something a human condition or natural human condition, whether that's a medical condition, or a mental health condition, or a financial condition, you know, when that condition or situation is stigmatized, we know that people are going to be much less willing to come forward to ask for help. And also much less willing to offer help. And so that's those are dangerous things. So the single biggest way to replace stigma with something more helpful is for more people to tell their own stories. And, you know, I just turned to the example of the mental health initiatives that have come out of egg wellness and some of the advertisements and stuff and public service announcements, where people are saying, I was really struggling, and I asked for help, or a spouse says, you know, I was worried about my husband and I reached out and I asked for help, and I got help, and it it was transformative, the more people are willing to share their own stories, and I'm just I'm not even going to use the term mental health issues. I'm just going to say struggles, life struggles, the more people are willing to be vulnerable and share those stories about their own struggles, the more people who have similar struggles or even more intense struggles, will be willing to come forward. And we know this is nowhere more true than in suicide prevention. When we see people come forward and say, I was really in a very bad place. I contemplated harming myself or taking my life. But instead, I spoke with someone and they they gave me hope or they listened with charity or they were thoughtful and they didn't judge me and they didn't just tell me to snap out of it. We know particularly in the military and veteran community, that whenever veterans and active military are vulnerable and disclosing like that, we know that every one of those, those statements saves lives. And even if it's not as dramatic as saving lives, it's bringing comfort, because when people are struggling, the most important thing they need is not their own resilience. It's an each other. And the each other is someone we're willing to talk with, because they're empathic, because we know they're not perfect. And so the best way an agricultural community or any community is to sort of latch on to these three concepts, you know, what makes a compassionate community to be connected to just be a part of a larger or a larger group than yourself or even your own family, to be respected, to know that, when you're struggling, the community still cares about you, as a member of the community, regardless of your wealth, or your status, or, or any of those other things, they accept you just for who you are. And then the third thing is actually probably the most protect is the most important and that's protected. In a in a compassionate community, people are protected. And that means when they're when there's danger, we protect each other from harm. But that also means that when harm happens, when bad things happen, we step up and protect each other. And, you know, we do this in the most obvious ways by sharing food and, and tangible resources. And in rural communities in particular, where people know each other already sharing meals and sharing, you know, potlucks and, and events like that, whether they're at births or deaths or funerals. You know, that's so built into the community fabric. And if we could consider mental health care and empathetic outreach, as like the casserole we deliver, that's going to feel a lot more natural to people to say, I just have to stop by and, you know, just, you know, for example, if someone and I, I lived in Wisconsin, during my high school years in a dairy farming community, and, you know, if a person had a cow that was struggling with birth, you know, the neighbor would come and help because it's, it's a more than a one person job, right, if you don't have a veterinarian available. And you know, people do that for neighbors. And if if we, each of us were just as willing, when we knew a person was struggling to just to stop by or you know, and now you can text you don't even have to drive you can call, we can have so many ways to communicate now. And just to do this in a not a, formal way, you don't have to do this the way I do it professionally. But just in this very matter of fact, Hi, neighbor, way these things are immeasurable in terms of human impact. I think the worst thing that can happen when there is something as dramatic as a death by suicide is if kind of life goes on and no one misses that person. Well, you know, that can happen pretty easily in large populations, but in smaller populations is less likely to happen a loss, like that's devastating. And it should be devastating. So the antidote for isolation is actually connection. And that's sort of the underbelly of so many mental health struggles is that people feel they have to bear them themselves.
Jake Hadfield 14:05
Well, thank you for sharing that. I, I am really impressed with what you said about how, you know, delivering casseroles delivering food sometimes comes easy, but thinking about that, in trying to connecting with others, whether it's sending a text I, I really think that message is important because I think sometimes we don't actually, we feel awkward, so we're not likely to do it. But if we kind of look at it from not when you trying to give them, you know, a meal or something like that, and thinking of it and sending a message that way. I just thought really hit with me and hit me. So thank you for sharing. And so another question real quick for you. What message would you share with the community, especially anyone who may be struggling with mental health or grief?
Kathie Supiano 14:54
Well, I think the most important thing here is sometimes we're the ones struggling And sometimes we're the one helping and just sort of figure out first where you are in the story and say, I'm the person struggling. Now I need some help, in the same way that if you were that you're very same person, and you see someone struggling that you would actually step up and help. So I'd like to create an image for you. And I hope we can post this image on the website. But if you know anything about carpentry and or homebuilding, this picture that I want to describe is an image of a house that's been renovated. And the builders, the contractors have ripped up the sub floor. So imagine, you know, the carpets gone, the tiles gone, the sub floors pulled up. And underneath it, they see rotted support beams that are connected to the very foundation of the house. So the carpenter, the construction worker could say, well, I'm ripping out all these beams, all these old beams, and boy, it's going to cost a lot. And then I'm going to have to rebalance the house and all these things, or the very wise carpenter could use a technique called sistering, which is a beautiful term. And I hope the ladies who are listening, appreciate it. But the idea of sistering is to take beautifully clean fresh two by fours, and put them on either side of the older, broken down or weakened beams, and bracket them in with multiple bolts. And so the new boards who are the friends, the support people, they don't tell the old boards how to hold up a house. But they and I love this term, they come alongside, and they support the beam in doing what it was going to do anyway, hold up the house hold up their own life. And so instead of having to rip things out, or start from scratch, the new beams understand that the old beam really does know what it wants, it knows what its job is it knows what it wants to do. And it comes alongside and supports it. And I think that's I just think it's a beautiful image for all of us who want help and need help, but also those of us who are trying to be helpers. So when we think about offering help, and when we think about taking help, it helps to ask yourself these three little questions. So what's needful here? Does the person need help? Do they need a tangible service? Like the board's been bracketed? Do they need a meal? to drive the kids? Do they need someone to talk with someone to go for a walk with someone that's gonna sit with them while they are upset or angry and not judge them? Do they need help? Or do they need to be heard? Do they need a helper to be in the room and just keep their mouth shut and let them tell stories? Or let them kick around ideas for solving problems? Or let them share their fears or apprehensions or doubts? Or do they just need a hug? Now, as I say, Do they just need a hug, I want you to know that I fully recognize I come from a very conservative German Lutheran Family and not everybody's a hugger. What I mean by a hug is showing up, then instead of saying, Oh, I don't know what to say, or I don't know what to do, you go in and you just say I'm feeling really awkward, I don't really even know the best way to support you. I am just here for you. And then let it unfold. In the same way when a person needs help, it's perfectly fine to say, you know, I'm counting on our friendship here. I don't even know what I'm asking for. But I just want to be able to tell you what's going on with me right now. Both of those are examples of grown up kinds of hugs, showing up being present. And so just sort of as you're the helper, or as your was the one needing help right now just say what do I need? Do I need a service? Do I need someone to help me find a therapist? Do I need someone to help me with distance technology when I'm, I'm in a zoom session? Do I need help? Or do I need to be heard? Do I just need a good listener? Or do I just need to count on with confidence that you are in my corner for me? That last one that hug that is actually my definition of what a community is? Because we're not a community when we all stay in our own isolated houses or lives. We're a community when we all come to gather different ways different times, but we bring our presence to caring about our neighbors
Josh Dallin 20:02
I love that and what a great, what a great couple of things for everybody to think about that will be so helpful for them as far as what they can do. And I just love that those analogies and also the realities of, you know, the differences that we all that we all express, you know, I'm I am a hugger. But I do know, there's some people that aren't great. And so respecting, and understanding those things that you said are so important, but the principles all make sense to go back to that overall support. So thank you so much for sharing that. And I think we just have one more question that we'd like to ask you. And it's just that the question of is there anything else or any other specific information, resources, anything at all that you'd like to share with our listeners that maybe we haven't already covered?
Kathie Supiano 20:53
Well, thanks. So, you know, I have been able to look at the AgWellness website, and just some remarkable resources. And so what I would add, is our organization, Caring Connections, you know, we're up here in Salt Lake County, and we're a little nonprofit, but we offer grief support groups and grief support information for people around the state and around the West. And I think if you share our website, which is just very simply nursing.utah.edu, forward slash caring hyphen, connections, and I think you'll share that, that will that will give you some guidance on both sides of this, how to get grief support. And then we also have a section on that website about how to help other people who are grieving. And, again, I want to just say most of the work that we do are people grieving the death of a family member or friend, whether it's a spouse or a child, a family member, or friend, or specifically a loss to suicide, or overdose, or homicide, we have specific resources for each of those things. But we want people to also know that we have resources to help them be the support person, for others. And so you're welcome to do that. And, again, we're so grateful for the technology of telehealth, that people can get mental health support or support groups or information through distance technology, especially in rural communities. At nighttime, no one's going to want to drive 50 miles to go to a one hour two hour group. So these are great assets that we're able to share. And then I always do like to give a shout out to the live on website, that is the one that's initially was focused primarily on suicide prevention, but now has a lot more information on mental health care. And it's also a great starting points. So people understand that these conditions and we call them mental health conditions, but they are health conditions. You know, when I was a young person working in the hospital, cancer was the stigma, you know, that granted, guys, this was in the 70s. But no one talked about cancer, people were ashamed of cancer talking about it. But this is where we are with mental health issues. Right now people are ashamed to talk about it, it should not be this way. This is no different than saying my mother had a stroke, then to say my mother is depressed and I need some help. These These should be the same sorts of phenomena, both horrible situations, but ones that are solvable when we bring them out and can talk about them freely and with with good care.
Josh Dallin 23:52
Well, we just can't thank you enough for your willingness to join us and share your wealth of knowledge and your personal stories. I think that the things that you have shared are going to be so beneficial to those not only who may be struggling with mental illness, but those also in the community that are wanting to make a difference and and those resources that you shared will definitely work to get those posted along with this podcast. And we just can't thank you enough for your time and for your dedication to making a difference in this field. So we greatly appreciate you and taking the time to share your your bits of wisdom with us today.
Kathie Supiano 24:32
Well, thank you and thanks to all of you at AgWellness and and thank you for our farmers and ranchers and producers for what I will have on my dinner table tonight. Thank you.
Josh Dallin 24:46
Again, this has been episode number 14 of the Ag wellness podcast with Josh and Jake, and our special guest Kathie Sue piano. Again, thank you everyone for listening. We look forward to seeing you next time.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ag Wellness podcast. Please subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts, visit our website at farmtress.us, and connect with us on social media at Ag Wellness Utah. If you are experiencing stress, mental health concerns, or suicidal thoughts, or if you know someone who is, please contact these resources. As always, if it is an emergency, dial 911.
Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255 Crisis Text Line Text HOME to 741741
Crisis Response Network 1-800-203-CARE (2273)
SafeUT 833-372-3388 or download their app to use the chat feature
If you need help finding a mental health provider, here are some ways to get started:
Contact the person’s health insurance provider and ask about mental health professionals that are within the network.
Psychology Today Service Finder: On this website, you can search for therapists, psychiatrists, treatment centers and support groups in your area. www.psychologytoday.com/us
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
• Here, you can find general information about mental health services in your area.
• findtreatment.samhsa.gov/
Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA)
• At this website, you can find health centers that offer more affordable options for people that do not have health insurance.
• https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
• This website can help if you have questions about insurance coverage for mental health.
• https://www.hhs.gov/programs/topic-sites/mental-health-parity/mental-health-and-addiction-insurance-help/index.html
Thanks for listening to the Ag Wellness podcast – be well!