AgWellness Episode 12: Interview with Danika Johnson
Josh Dallin 00:11
Hello, everybody, and welcome to episode 12 of our ag wellness Podcast. Today Jake and I are joined by Danica Johnson. And we are really excited to have her with us. Danica, can you give us a short introduction and tell us a little bit about who you are and what your connection is to the ag community?
Danika Johnson 00:35
Yeah, so my name is Danika Johnson. I live in Salt Lake County, and I moved here when I turned 12. And that's where we really started as a family to get heavy into raising livestock in the summer. We've always had horses and I've been heavily involved in the equine industry. And they've raised sheep and goats, and done that as a family since I was 12. And now my siblings do it. And that's a little bit about the community I come from.
Jake Hadfield 01:07
And what about your profession? What do you do as far as your profession in the ag industry?
Danika Johnson 01:13
Now I work as an event manager at the Bastion Agricultural Center in specifically in the equine field right now, and just work with any event that comes in here, equine based, ag based, but really anything.
Josh Dallin 01:30
And for those listeners that don't know, the Bastian Agricultural Center is owned and operated by Utah State University. It's one of the premier equine and livestock facilities in the West, and oftentimes will host some of the larger equine events that are that are offered in the West, there's especially in 2023 going to be quite a few folks coming from all over to the Bastian center and Danika is really the the the main event manager that handles all of those things in the interactions with the people in the in those
communities. So kind of a kind of a really neat and unique deal and and Utah State University is definitely lucky to have her on board.
Danika Johnson 02:15
Well, thank you.
Jake Hadfield 02:16
Well, Danika, you know that this podcast focuses on mental health. So this question is kind of a personal question, but we wanted to ask you, some of your, what are some of the early experiences with mental health that you've had? And how have they made you feel? Or how have they affected your life?
Danika Johnson 02.36
Yeah, I think I really try to be open and honest about the fact that I suffer with anxiety disorder. And I differ a little bit where I think sometimes people combine depression and anxiety. And I don't suffer from depression, sometimes I can suffer from depressive episodes from my anxiety. But the first thing I want to say is that those things don't have to go together. So you might have one or the other. And just, that doesn't mean you have both. And that's an okay, that's a great thing. So, um, I think the first time that I
when I'm looking back at my childhood now, when I was just a little girl, I had a really hard time with simple tasks, going to school, staying at a friend's house, just trying to do anything new, trying to go anywhere new, I had a really hard time I would make myself sick, I would get stomach aches, I would just I didn't have things didn't come easy to me like they did other kids. And I don't, I don't think we understood as much growing up, my parents didn't. Now looking back, my mom suffers from anxiety too. So it's something we share, and we can communicate. But growing up, we did not have that discussion. It wasn't talked about very often. In my home or in general, I just don't think mental health was talked about as much as it as it could have been. And so I didn't have a name for it. I didn't understand it. I just thought that I was scared or nervous or that I was different from other kids and had a really hard time doing anything. Thankfully, my mom even though she didn't understand anxiety, or what it was, she still really encouraged me to do as many things as possible, as many new things put me in places, which it's kind of funny now because people know me as someone that is very outgoing and talkative. But I have such a hard time with that. I couldn't even ask the worker at the restaurant for a sauce packet. I had such a hard time with those little tasks and my mom just really encouraged me to continue to put myself out there and to talk and to not feel that stress and that anxiety that came from little tasks. So that's that's just as a little girl, how I experienced it. And then as I grew up in Got a little bit older, when I turned 18, thankfully, I had a great church leader that encouraged me to go see a
counselor, after I had communicated with him about some of the things I struggled with. And that was the first time that somebody had put a name to what I was feeling. And I was like, Oh, I had no idea that I had just never even processed until I was much older. And so that was the first time that I really started to talk to somebody professionally about it,
Josh Dallin 05:29
We really appreciate you sharing that. And an interesting thing is Jake and I traveled around we we are able to present on some, some of the signs and symptoms that come along with mental illness and those things and, and we often talk about anxiety. And I think that you have given a really good definition just by giving us those examples, that it's, it's very debilitating, and it's hard for people that don't, don't have that type of an illness, to understand why it is that you can't ask for a sauce packet or whatever that may be. And I just appreciate your vulnerability and, and sharing that because maybe there's people that are going to be listening to this that also have never taken that step. You did mention that when you're about 18 years old, you had a an opportunity to have one of your church leaders that said, you know, maybe you should go and seek some help what, what was that process like to start therapy? And what did the people in your life and community think when you started it?
Danika Johnson 06:33
I think that's an interesting question. Because somebody that suffers from anxiety, picking up the phone and calling somebody to make an appointment is very difficult. That alone and then trying to do that with a counselor or a therapist is very scary, very hard, it can take weeks to get yourself up to that point that Oh, I can I can do this. And so where I had somebody in my corner, that kind of understood, I don't think he really knew he just knew that he couldn't help me. As much as he would like to, he made that
phone call for me, set that first appointment up for me, which made my life so much easier, it made it so that I could go. And that that was groundbreaking. For me that was awesome to be able to go that first time and, and just sit down and talk and I just was just sharing the things that I struggled with on the day to day. And she by the end of that said, you know, I think you suffer from anxiety. And that just opened the door for so many other processes. Going along with therapy and therapy is not something
that I had to do super often I went once a month. That's what, that's what I could afford. That's what I could do. And it really helped just even talking to somebody that little bit. And at first I did not tell anyone that I was going to see. So I should clarify that the first person I saw was a counselor, not a therapist. And, and I, at first I just did not tell anybody. I didn't I don't know why maybe because it wasn't talked about very much. I didn't want... one, I didn't want people to worry about me thinking
because I think there's such a stigma around counseling, therapy, anything to do with that, that there is something wrong with you, or there's something that needs to be fixed. Or I think also people associate like suicidal things with therapy. And that's that's not where I was at. And I did not want people to worry about me in that sense. There was just not an education in my family, or even the people around me with it. And so I went for almost two years before I finally told my dad that I talked to somebody, and
then just started to share it a little bit more and more. And I realized the more I talked about me going, the more it helped not only people in my family, but the people around me to realize that. And more and more people popped up and said, Oh, that's where I go too. And I talked to somebody and and that was that was a neat experience for me and sharing that.
Jake Hadfield 09:02
Well, thank you, Danika. And I think that is something I think it's a little hard to share at first, but from what we've seen as we've presented and done things across the state. I think once it gets out there, it actually becomes a lot easier for not only the person who may be struggling, but the people around them as well. And so you've kind of already answered this next question I wanted to ask you, Danika, but I kind of wanted to spin it a little bit different. So how did your like upbringing or your community as
well as your family? How did their ability to support you change once you were able to find treatment for your anxiety or while you were trying to find that treatment, I should ask?
Danika Johnson 09:46
I think that's a great question. And I think what I learned going to therapy was being able to share this with people with specifically my family in ways that they could help me It wasn't that I just said, Oh, hey, I'm going to therapy, I have anxiety, I sat down and said and kind of gave, this is how my mom is, this is the personality that she is. And my therapist talked to me about, hey, this is how you can talk to her so that she can help you. And so we went through those steps of these, these are the people in your life that can help you more. And I think this is a veers off your question a little bit, but I am married. And so talking to my husband about this, when we were first started dating was something that was super important to me, because obviously, this is something that I was going to deal with forever. And so communicating with him about the way his family brought him up, there wasn't a lot of mental illness conversation in his family either. So just finding the ways to talk to the people that you love, and that
love you in your life so that they understand it, and can help you and now I have some clear boundaries, I have set some specific conversations with my family that they understand. This is what they can ask of me, this is what they can't ask of me. And I went through those with my, my therapist, every single person in my life, I still do still to this day, I started a new job I say this, these are the people I'm working with, and how can they understand me a little bit better? Or what can I do so that they understand, hey, that's really hard for me. And I think that that's a key part to talking with your family. And it's not, families are just worried, you know, your parents in your life, your siblings, your loved ones, they're just worried all the time. And so your job is to just reassure them that they're that you're okay, and tell them how they can help you. That's all people want to do is find a way to help you.
Josh Dallin 11:41
That's wise insight and and really when we think about all of the things that all of us have to go through in life, to be able to have somebody to help us to navigate who we are and how we communicate with others. That's a great insight there especially to help you as you as you work through your anxiety. So my question is this, what do you think would be helpful for others to know about anxiety and mental health and especially people that are in rural and agricultural communities?
Danika Johnson 12:15
I think one of the biggest things I want to say is, as much as anxiety is difficult for me, I do appreciate it in a sense. So my anxiety keeps me motivated. I know that if I procrastinate something if I am not an organized, or if I am an organized, if I wait too long to do anything that makes my anxiety severely worse. So in turn, that means that I usually am on the ball with things and usually a pretty organized person, I try to make sure that everything in my life is put together the best I can so that I don't suffer
from anxiety attacks. And so I do appreciate that side of it. Because it, I would like to think it makes me a pretty good employee a pretty good person to have in your corner when you need something like that. And so it not everything is negative, you know, sometimes we talk about mental illness in such a negative way, or something that you need to fix. And mental illness is not like a broken arm, you know, some people will will compare those two, where they say, Hey, if you if you got a cut, you would go and get it stitched up. It's not like that it is something that you will live with, probably forever, you will have it with you forever. And so it's not something you can fix, it's not something that you can just will just go away. But it is something that you can use to your advantage. You can find help, medication, therapy, all sorts of things to help you live with it better. And let it and use it as an advantage, whether that's talking to people around you, or using it in the way that I do. There's lots of different things that you can
do for it to become an advantage and not something that you necessarily have to fix because you won't, it's just going to be a part of you forever. And that took me a really long time to come to terms with because I felt like if I had just done enough things the right way that I wouldn't feel that anxiety. And that's just not the case. Because although I can organize my life, the best way I know how, you know, things are just out of your control, things are just uncontrollable. And getting up in the morning is sometimes hard for me. You know getting out of bed is for whatever reason can be a really, really hard ask. And so don't don't let yourself feel like you know, I I just want you to know that you there are lots of resources. There's lots of help like this podcast is awesome, but there's lots of things that you can do and it's not something you can fix, but it is something you can live with. And it doesn't have to be, doesn't have to be incredibly hard. And so I would just encourage, encourage anybody that's in maybe an agricultural rural community that this isn't talked about maybe as much reach out to your spouse, your parent, somebody, a good friend, somebody you love and ask for their help, because that was what changed it for me as having somebody that helped me.
Josh Dallin 15:24
So I want to ask a quick little follow up about that, because I really like your example of it's not like a broken arm, right? I think oftentimes, when we go out and we teach, we say, you don't leave a broken arm untreated? Yep. But I think the difference is, is what you're saying, which is very insightful is you know, you put a cast on a broken arm, the bone heals, you're done. Mental health treatment is that it's a treatment, and not necessarily a fix.
Danika Johnson 15:54
Yeah.
Josh Dallin 15:54
And I think, you know, as I as I think about members of my family and other friends that are very close to me, that, that have variations of mental illness struggles. I think that that is key. And I think that the more we talk about that, like what you're sharing, it sets realistic expectations. I think that sometimes if somebody feels like, well, if I go to this therapist, it's all going to be done fixed and over, if I go to this doctor, it's all going to be done and fixed and over. No, the plan that's going to be put into place is going
to be a treatment plan that's going to allow you to live a mostly normal life and be able to overcome those obstacles. So a follow up question then is, you know, how do you feel you would be today? I mean, you're young, our viewers can't see you. But you're quite young. And you started this journey at 18 years old. So it's been a few years, but not very many years. What do you think your life would look like had you have not sought out that, that help in that treatment?
Danika Johnson 16:55
I think a key thing to remember too, is it anxiety and depression and all mental health, health and illnesses are not one size fits all. So the anxiety is on a spectrum. And I have kept mine at a lower place because of the treatment I've received and the help and the tools I have. So I am not medicated. Currently, just because I I have found tools that helped me not be that way. But I have in the past and family members of my family have. And but I think going looking back, if I would have never gone to counseling that first time and never received those tools, I think that my anxiety would have gotten worse. And then to that point that I would have probably been on the Depression Scale. Because how anxiety works for me is I um, I have a lot of little anxiety attacks about things. And then one day we'll have one major anxiety attack, and that is so emotionally draining like it physically makes your body not want to move it is so mentally and physically just exhausting that then that puts you into a depressive
state. That's only happened a couple of times for me, when things are really uncontrollable, and things are really hard. But I think if I would have never received those tools in the first place, I just I think that that would have happened to me more often. And then I would be somebody that suffering with anxiety and depression, severely.
Jake Hadfield 18:28
Well, thank you for sharing that, Danika. I know it's it's pretty personal to talk about these things sometimes. And we really appreciate you being willing to share those things. And, and I just love what you've highlighted. Because you know, from what we've seen, as we've talked with others and and talk to people across the state, that's one thing is that this is a journey, a lot of times, it's not just a hurry and get to the destination and be done. It's more of trying to figure it out and working through it. And so we
really appreciate you sharing all this information. So kind of go into our last question, what are some key things you'd like to share with others in that community if they may be having questions or concerns or even thinking about starting therapy?
Danika Johnson 19:13
First, I would say if you go to therapy one or two times and you don't like your therapist, switch, they are not they are like any other doctor, any other person, any other human. Find somebody else if you don't if you don't jive with them if they don't understand exactly what you're going through, especially in the ag community. And it might be hard for a therapist to understand, right? They didn't grow up in that community. Maybe they didn't. They don't understand why you have a love for it. And I think that's hard. I mean, I had a therapist that I saw one time and I had kind of talked about my animals and my everything that I was involved in and she said, Well, maybe you should look at not doing so many of those things. And that obviously just was is not going to work for me, that's my life. That's what I love, right? I love horses, I love animals I love that's, that is what I do. And I think if you're in the community, you probably share that same love. And so if somebody doesn't understand, go to somebody new, you know, that's, that's an okay thing to do. There is a lot of resources online, if you live somewhere that you can't go into an office, I, my husband, and I go see a therapist online. And that's, that works awesome for us. And we just do a zoom call, and it can be a quick 30 minutes, it can be an hour it, you know, make it work for your life, you know, it's not something that you don't have to put your life on hold to go to therapy, you know, find a way for this to be just another one of your appointments that you're
used to doing. And I think the other thing is, is there's lots of options. If you're somebody that doesn't want to be medicated, you don't have to be, you can be really honest with your therapist about it. If that is something that you want, again, that's something you can be really honest about. And there's lots of different options of things that you can do. If that option is not working, try something else. Again, like I said, this is something you're gonna live with your whole life. So don't suffer from it your whole life, you
know, go go get that help. And if it's not working, switch it up, try something new, you have a whole long life to live. And you know, something might work for a period of time, and then you have to change it. Like I said, I I was on, I was on medication for a little while that was no longer working for me, I switched it up, who knows, maybe one day I'll go back to that. And that's, that's okay, this is not something that you know, is is set in stone, you don't have to do something a certain way. And like I said, just keep your keep your people in the loop, somebody that's close to you, that can help you that can encourage you. And that can be that reminder that you don't have to suffer from this just because you live with it.
Josh Dallin 21:52
Well, Danika, we can't thank you enough for sharing your personal story. And also your insight, because there's no better storyteller than somebody that has lived, what they're talking about, and has experienced the things that that you have. And we know that this will be key as it's shared to those that listen, to understand what it's really like, right that the the realness and the rawness of what you've shared with us today is so important because you you tell the truth and the realistic expectations. You
know, one of the things for our Utah listeners that I would plug is that, you know, your encouragement to go in and start that process so that you can start to live a better life and not struggle. We haven't really mentioned this on the podcast, but I want to mention it now. Thanks to the Utah Department of Ag and food. In a partnership with Utah State University Extension, we actually have an opportunity for individuals to be reimbursed for their therapy sessions, whether they be with a medical doctor,
counselor, or therapist, whatever that may be. If you're struggling with a mental illness, and you're worried about the financial burden that may be put upon you. Right now, if you go to our ag wellness website, there's an opportunity that you can partake in, where we can reimburse you up to $2,000 per individual for those services. And so we really encourage you if that's one of your stumbling blocks to not let that be anymore. Let us help to to pay for these things and get you on the right track so that you
can have your own success story, like Danika has to understand and learn the tools that that can help you to have a better life. So we again, appreciate you being here. Anything else you wanted to share with us?
Danika Johnson 23:50
I was just going to add to that, I think sometimes I was going to add that it can be embarrassing. And I did deal with that for a little while. But I've realized since getting married to my husband deals with so much more mental health issues that he even knew, because of the family situation that he grew up in. And the lack of conversation there was about it. And I think that he when we first had started having these conversations, he was really embarrassed by it because of being a man. And if that's how you're feeling. I'm going to put it bluntly and say stop it. There's no reason to feel embarrassed by it. And there's there's something really cool about anybody but men in general, being able to be vulnerable and honest about how they're feeling and what's going on. And if you're in the ag community, you have a hard job, you got a stressful, go at things and it would be hard for anybody, let alone somebody that suffers from anxiety I can't even imagine so. So don't be embarrassed. Just ask for these kinds of
resources. And then lastly, I just wanted to thank you Josh and Jake for doing this. I mean, this is this is awesome. And if I would have had the chance to listen to something like this, maybe when I was even younger, I think it would have been really helpful and sharing it. I'm excited to share it with my parents and people around me so that they, they can open these conversations up and just start talking. So thank you guys.
Josh Dallin 25:18
No, it's us that needs to thank you. Again, to our listeners. We thank you for listening in today, we've been joined again by Danika Johnson. This is Jake and Josh with our episode 12 of our ag wellness podcast, and we will see you next time.
Ty Aller 25:37
Hello, and thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Ag wellness podcast. My name is Dr. Ty Aller and I'm a researcher at the Institute for Disability Research Policy and Practice at Utah State University studying ways to promote mental health in rural communities and amongst folks with disabilities. Today's episode highlighted the story of accessing treatment for someone experiencing anxiety. And as I reflected on this week's episode, I thought it might be useful to have a more explicit conversation about language, and language we use to help folks access mental health services. As an individual that received care for an anxiety disorder for 10 to 12 years in my life, I've experienced some really helpful ways to approach things and maybe some ways that weren't so helpful. And I'll start by just going straight to the strength of using strength based language, and viewing mental health more as a continuum, or something to experience in life, rather than something to be solved, fixed or changed.
What I mean by this is that throughout life, we are given opportunities to experience pain and learn through that pain. This pain has been called things like depression, and anxiety. And there are frankly things that are fairly normal to experience in life. That being said, throughout life, we are taught ways to interact with this pain, or this depression anxiety that are maybe less than helpful. We might avoid events or things that give us meaning for fear of how it might go, where we might isolate ourselves from
those around us that we truly love and admire connection with because our minds are telling us to not interact with folks because we're experiencing depression. Well, these indicators are useful to notice because they help us identify when someone might need or benefit from resources. That being said, they're not necessarily an event or an issue to solve in someone. Throughout today's episode, we talked a lot about mental health concerns, but more from the medical model, we'll have illness or
something to be cured a fixed. And what we know this tends to do for folks, is it stigmatizes them or tells them that they are broken and they need corrected. One of the ways I've tried to address this, as a mental health researcher and practitioner or clinician working with folks is to view more of depression anxiety, or these mood states as natural pieces of the human condition that we get to learn how to work or live with. In a way, it's kind of like having an annoying neighbor or roommate that you don't
necessarily love when they come and knock on the door. But the more often you just let them in and get to know them. They're not quite as annoying or as painful to experience. When we're able to shift this conversation from trying to get rid of mood states, to instead trying to be more accepting and open to experiencing them. It helps create openness and space to really process through it and learn how to get help, which may make someone more likely to receive therapy because they feel less stigmatized. Similar to the concepts we talked about today. managing anxiety and mental health is a daily process that takes hard work. And that's what we heard. But it can be a deeply rewarding journey that allows us to connect with ourselves and those around us with more depth. So if you're interested are you in receiving treatment for anxiety, depression, or you may know someone, you can reach out to the resources that are provided in the link description. You can also reach out to our team to learn more about the resources that may be available in your area. Thanks again for your time and listening to this podcast. We hope you found it useful. Have a good day.
Josh Dallin 29:56
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ag Wellness podcast. Please subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts, visit our website at farmtress.us, and connect with us on social media at Ag Wellness Utah. If you are experiencing stress, mental health concerns, or suicidal thoughts, or if you know someone who is, please contact these resources. As always, if it is an emergency, dial 911.
Suicide Prevention Lifeline 1-800-273-8255 Crisis Text Line Text HOME to 741741
Crisis Response Network 1-800-203-CARE (2273)
SafeUT 833-372-3388 or download their app to use the chat feature
If you need help finding a mental health provider, here are some ways to get started:
Contact the person’s health insurance provider and ask about mental health professionals that are within the network.
Psychology Today Service Finder: On this website, you can search for therapists, psychiatrists, treatment centers and support groups in your area. www.psychologytoday.com/us
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
• Here, you can find general information about mental health services in your area.
• findtreatment.samhsa.gov/
Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA)
• At this website, you can find health centers that offer more affordable options for people that do not have health insurance.
• https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
• This website can help if you have questions about insurance coverage for mental health.
• https://www.hhs.gov/programs/topic-sites/mental-health-parity/mental-health-and-addiction-insurance-help/index.html
Thanks for listening to the Ag Wellness podcast – be well!