AgWellness Episode 9: Interview with Cris Meier
Josh Dallin 00:10
Hello and welcome to episode nine of our ag wellness podcast. This is Josh Delon. I'm joined by my co host, Jake Hadfield, we are fortunate to have Cris Meier with us today from Utah State University. Cris is a social work professor, where she focuses on community resource and economic development. As a specialist for Utah State University Extension. We are so grateful for you taking the time to be with us today, Cris, welcome.
Cris Meier 00:42
Thanks for having me.
Josh Dallin 00:43
Now, Cris, we always like to start our podcast off by giving our listeners the opportunity to get to know you just a little bit better. So even though I've introduced you with your official title for the university, can you give us a short introduction? And tell us about yourself? And then tell us about your connection to the agcommunity?
Cris Meier 01:06
Yeah, thanks. So I actually grew up in Southern California, we're not known for our strong agriculture. So you might be going, Oh, no, why did we invite her but I actually had relatives in Oregon who did farm, we would go up there during summers. And, you know, that was really my experience. I remember fondly picking blackberries and helping with the sheeps and goats and stuff like that, um, but really, I grew up in an urban environment. But when I eventually in my mid 20s, or so not that you know, my age, but, you know, I ended up going to Iowa to the University of Iowa for my graduate degrees, and I ended up being there for 10 years. And, you know, unexpectedly, I ended up living on a rural working farm, where we were farming, soybeans, and corn, not surprising for Iowa. And my partner at the time, and his family actively farmed the land and a lot of the land in the area. So I really became interested in how the farm worked, the economics of it, the stress and burden it put on the family, and then the really the benefits and struggles of farming and ranching. So that's how I've really become, like, excited and interested in agriculture was living on that working farm, you know, seeing my partner's nieces and nephews at the time, engaging in the work, you know, engaging in 4-H and Youth Development. And I was really excited, you know, to have that opportunity to go from this urban, you know, growing up where we barely have grass to wow, look at all those corn and soybean fields and how all this works. So that's a little bit about my background. And then I came to Utah four years ago, as an assistant professor in social work, and was really excited to get to move into this extension position, where I do focus mainly on rural communities, I don't tend to work on urban, which there are of course, agri urban agriculture, but I tend to work more with the rural folks.
Jake Hadfield 03:01
Well, that's awesome. Cris, we're, we're excited to have you here. And one of the things we're just wondering, so kind of tell us a little bit about your work here and you Utah State, kind of what you've done as you know, Professor of Social Work and kind of that specialist and extension, and how have those roles connected you to the ag community here locally in Utah?
Cris Meier 03:22
Sure. So first, I'm going to start as talking about my role as a social work professor. You know, I teach program evaluation, which isn't that exciting, maybe for you know, what we're talking about today. But I also taught teach Community Health and Social Work, where I teach my students this holistic view of communities, and encourage them to before they're going into practice, understand who's in your community, what's available in your community, you know, economics, everything, all the pieces of the community, right. And so and then I also mentor a lot of students, which again, is mainly working with rural students working in more of a rural capacity, that kind of thing. And then as a specialist for extension, I tried to think of a real broad way to talk about what I do, because I do a lot of things. But, you know, I work with rural county faculty to really create, implement, and evaluate health related programming. So some of this can be maybe preventative programs, and some are really addressing current concerns in the community, such as stigma of substance use. Okay. So to give you a little more information, my work really focuses on enhancing what is already really already available in a community, because often rural communities are strong and capable. But when we think about maybe how some people talk about rural communities or the rhetoric, it's like, deficit based, and they don't, you know, they didn't go to school, they don't have this. Well, I really prefer and think our revenues are strong, and we just need to enhance what's there and build capacity for what they need right? And then that second thing I kind of talked about is incorporating capacity building. So how do we build capacity among amongst our rural communities to work with what they've got, and enhance what they have their skills wise and things like that? So how does all of that connect to the ag community? So right, our ag system, as you guys know, comprises a lot of different folks, right. And so, and these people play a really important role in their community and our agriculture system. So the work I do, seeks to do things like empower youth to engage and data driven projects. So this is through my well connected communities projects. So in youth development, where, you know, we could help our future ag leaders incorporate data and evidence into their decisions, like, as a business person, right in the future. So we teach them the process of finding evidence, using that to create a project, and then doing something in their community to enhance like health and well being. So that's one one connection there. And the other is we do I do a lot of preventative programming, programming. And so the idea with these are definitely to reduce poor health later in life. So when we have to miss a day of, of work, or weeks of work, right? This can be really, really detrimental to our small ag businesses, right, because if you miss a day of work, you cannot be out there working. It's just, it's just not, you know, it doesn't work for your business. So if we can help people stay healthy, it can help them reduce miss days of work, improve how they feel, and also hopefully contribute to feeling that this feeling of health, helpfulness extends into their personal and professional lives, right helps them overall as a human.
Josh Dallin 06:47
That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that. So here's a here's an interesting question to pose in your professional realm that you've just described, can you tell us what you're seeing as economic issues that are the most concern to you, in rural and agricultural communities? And, and then, in your experience, what are the mental health impacts of these economic issues?
Cris Meier 07:17
Yeah, so first, I'm going to speak to the more evidence based ones. And then I wanted to speak to an anecdotal personal one I've seen. So as you all know, and you've talked about on this show, right, that there are a lot of concerns about mental health among our farmers and ranchers that can be linked to stress, isolation, potentially lack of access to mental health resources and other health resources, depending on where you live. So you know, and this is also highly related to this to the concern of suicide ideation, attempts and completions. So we really need to do better as a mental health and healthcare system to reach these folks, right, who may sometimes feel like they're forgotten, maybe they don't have the resources to, you know, utilize these services, because it's really expensive. And sometimes I also feel like our ag and ag community feels like these services aren't for me, I don't have a provider who looks like me, I don't have someone who understands my struggles. As a farmer or rancher, it's really hard to come in and be vulnerable. And I think this is one of the largest pressing concerns, really an economically it has devastating consequences, right on, on your ability to, you know, function as a as an ag producer, it impacts your ability to, you know, be a family person and be with your family. And it's just all encompassing. So this is a really area, we need to do better and figure out how to better help our community. Another one, just from my experience, as a social worker is our profession needs to do better on its own right. So social workers are often clinical therapists that you might find in a mental health counselor position. And in Utah, if you look at the data, we have a clear shortage of mental health professionals in rural areas. So if you don't live on the Wasatch Front, you are at a disadvantage. It's going to be really hard to find LMFT a social worker, behavioral health, any type of provider is a shortage, there's a shortage. And so you know, we really need to figure out as a profession, how do we get our trained social workers LMFT is all of those folks lmao cheese to move and go back to the community that came from or to like, devote years of their professional life to a rural community? Because, you know, people need services, there's long waitlist, but they simply can't find anyone. The other piece of that is figuring out with our youth. So if we know youth want to go into these professions, we really need to incentivizing them and encouraging them to come back. So this is related to community vitality as well. How do we get our young people to return to their rural communities to provide these services, this is the area they go into, because it really enhances economic development and rural vitality. Because the more people you have working and paying taxes, and doing their job, the better off your community is going to be. And that's going to keep that community vital. Instead of what we see, in Iowa, we have a lot of dying rural communities. And we simply don't want that to happen here in Utah. It's a devastating for, especially these families that have, you know, third, fourth generation, we're like agricultural folks, it's devastating. And then the final anecdotal thing I want to talk about is related to this succession planning, right? So there's a lot of familiar stress about who takes over family, ag businesses. And often so I saw this in my ex partners own family where there was an expectation that the youth were going to take over the farm, and the youth didn't want to. And so you have third generation farmers who can't who don't have a family member to inherit the farm. And often they're blindsided, right, like, sometimes there's not clear conversations about that expectation. And I think that's where that idea of legacy planning and things like that can come into play as having these hard conversations, as people realize that they don't want to take over the agriculture business, so that then our aging, agricultural workforce knows and can start thinking out, this is their legacy. It's devastating to the family when it happens. And just, you know, got to have those conversations early so that as our farming community and ranchers age, they know what's going to happen to this legacy they put their whole lives into, those are my three.
Jake Hadfield 11:48
Cris, those are, those are perfect. And I'll tell you, Josh, and I, as you know, we've worked in local communities in the ag community here throughout Utah, I know that we've seen a lot of these issues, and a lot of these impacts, specifically with succession training. That's one thing Josh and I and a team of us with USU extension, we do a succession workshop. And you're right, that is one of the most stressful things is to be able to figure out how to pass on that agriculture operation to the next generation. So anyway, I think you hit those, those issues right on the head there. Kind of into our next question. So you we've kind of talked about those three issues. Can you speak to projects that you're involved in that address these issues that you just talked about?
Cris Meier 12:34
Absolutely. So um, so for the Social Work program, where we think about, you know, I'm just a lowly educator, I, you know, I teach students, I mentor them things like that, I don't necessarily have control over the system, other than as a mentor, I can encourage my students, you know, to consider rural areas, things like that, go back to where you came from those things. But actually, for the social program, we do have some programs that the Utah legislature has funded to increase some of this not necessarily rural focus work, but just mental health work overall. So there's several loan payback programs and tuition support. So if someone were to say, Hey, I'm willing to give the next year after I graduate three years of my life to DCFS, that is one option. We also have newly a newly funded program like this, that's at Utah State University, I think exclusively don't quote me. But for folks who are going to go into the substance use treatment and recovery field, they're able to get this as well, when they're working on their master's. I'm also aware there is a rural mental health program that's national, that's similar. However, I've had very few students use it, I'm not quite sure what keeps them from using that program. But you know, I do wonder if Utah doesn't need to do something similar, like they're doing for the DHS Program, and for DCFS, sorry, and the substance use treatment and recovery field and to try to encourage more rural providers. So that's, that's the first one. And so when I think about for isolation, mental health and stress, that component we talked about, you know, and you guys have also done a lot of work already in this area that the grants and work that's been going on at USU extension already is is wonderful. You know, most of the programs I work on, really target the general population that anyone can come to and doing this has made me think a lot today about our need to probably do some more targeted programming right through these existing health and wellness programs that we have going with USU extension. But, you know, often I focus on these programs that build a sense of community. And, you know, I think that the program I'll describe really can enhance the network between add, folks, that's another important piece is that feeling of community feeling of connectedness, having someone else to talk to and go have to write is a piece of informal helping that we can do in the community. And then I think the thing that is different and why we need to have some different programs that maybe target the community is it creates a safe space for participation. So when we offer I'll talk about art an art, heal, create program we do at the Troy Resource Center in Roosevelt, you know, it's not maybe the safest space or you wouldn't feel good. if you came in and you were a farmer, rancher, you wouldn't see anyone else like you. So having programs that are that target at the ag community are really beneficial. And so for my own program, I'm just going to talk about the tribal and rural opioid Resource Center, and Roosevelt. So I'm the co director with Susie Prevadel. And so we do a lot of community programming that specifically seeks to address stigma related to opioid and drug use and misuse. And so for instance, we'll do programming where we have people come in, and we focus heavily on the tribal community. And so we'll have them come in, and we'll do things based on the medicine wheel, and there'll be a beading project, where they be the medicine wheel, and then process that related to stigma. And you know, a loved one, things like that, because we're all touched by that. So that's just kind of one example is doing these kind of hands on activities. That creates a safe space for people to then process those, you know, I don't say feelings, but experiences related to stigma for their family. So first aid planning, I don't do anything with that, again, you guys have done great work on that. I think in Utah, though, overall, I just want to say we're a little behind, not necessarily for ag folks, but for all aging. Utahns. So Utah's demographics are very different than almost every state in the country where we have more young people than old. So for instance, where I came from Iowa, huge focus on aging adults, because we had more older adults than young adults, right. So eventually here, Utah is gonna get caught up where we have a lot of older adults, and either few or at least equal, younger, younger Utahns. So I think we really need to do some additional work starting at youth, right, talking about succession planning, talking about making, you know, thinking about your life and your future. I think we could talk to our young people in this area for youth development and talk to them about their interest in their family farms. You know, businesses, small agriculture, things like that, and help them think through and be prepared to communicate, right? Because it's the conversation isn't just on the legacy holder. It's also the that the young adult coming up who's having to make these hard decisions about? Do I want to be an accountant? Or do I want to be, you know, follow my family footsteps and farm. And you know, when you think about their experiences, that could be a hard decision, because I Farming isn't always a moneymaker. There's a lot of hard times and farming and ranching. So how do we help youth process those like, you know, and have those discussions with them, so they're prepared to have them when they feel so much pressure to be the legacy holder and continue it on?
Josh Dallin 18:11
Amazing, Cris, thank you so much. And thank you for the amazing work that you're doing out there. At those centers. Such an incredible thing. I've seen data and resources that have come from there. And we appreciate the work that you're doing to help those in need with those specific issues that you talked about. My next question asked ask is, do you think that there are broader policy solutions that you believe would help our rural and ag communities address social or economic concerns? Do you think that there's, there's some things that might be even broader than what we've already talked about?
Cris Meier 18:54
Yeah, so two controversial ones to talk about. Maybe they're I don't know controversial there, but they are to me.
Josh Dallin 19:01
Controversy controversy sells so that might be good here on the podcast.
Cris Meier 19:07
Excellent. Well, I'm ready. Um, so actually, some people know this about me, but my actual expertise area is in food and nutrition. I am a PSC researcher, I do a lot with food environments, and food prices, things like that. So my, you know, I think that nationally, we really need to continue to invest in agriculture. I know we do to a point. You know, some folks might say that's plenty of money and there doesn't need to be more, but I think there needs to be continual investment. You know, one of these is in ag education. So you know, if we want our young people to become that next person in the whole agriculture system, which goes beyond just farming and ranching, right, there's a lot that goes into the agricultural system. We need to expand our ag education, you know, how are we going to get more youth to participate in these youth development programs that are ag related not just 4-H but FFA and others, right? How do we get them to come in and have an interest? I think it's really important. And, you know, I think the other piece related to that is how do we make farming and ranching for small and midsize farms more profitable, because we can't get young people to go into those fields if they're going to struggle like their parents and grandparents did. So I do think we have to look at ag education, embrace technology, I know there's a lot of technology in agriculture that helps people maximize their profits, things like that. But you know, we a lot of our farmers and ranchers struggle, it's just such a struggle, the cost of having a farm is so high, and a ranch and to do those, it's just it's not very profitable, right. So in order for our young people to go into this really important place of work that we need people to be working in, we have to figure out how to wait make it more profitable for them. So that's my first piece is an assignment. Now I'm gonna talk about subsidies, which people maybe don't love, right. But I do think we need to provide more support than for small ag businesses and those mid size as well. Right. So one thing I've seen happen in these smaller family farms where they have, you know, you know, 100 200 acres like, you know, not a ton of acreage is their combine goes out and it needs to be replaced, and they can't afford it, the equipment is so expensive. So how do we provide additional supports, beyond just a loan a low, you know, interest loan to them or something, because really one catastrophic equipment failure can really tank a small farm, it's a problem, right? Because we want those farms to operate and not be incorporated into a larger farm is what happens a lot in Iowa, they get they get really absorbed by a large farming industry. So that's a problem. And then, you know, I think we need to also figure out what other type of protections we can put in place to secure those farms so that they are able to become legacy farms and be, you know, passed on generation to generation, you know, there's the same issue with taxes on the land and things like that. And then food subsidies. So I do think additional food subsidies will help, right, because if you can expand your profit as well. So, you know, in the US, and I'm sure this has changed with the with the current inflation issues, but we spend, on average per household less of our income on food total than other nations, right, like, the percentage of our income that we spend on food is much smaller than other countries, because we've tried to keep our food prices so low. And so that doesn't help our farmers and ranchers who are trying to make a living, right. And so if we can also increase subsidies for the foods we eat, like fruits and vegetables, not I mean, I know that subsidies on corn and soybeans have decreased. But if we could figure out a way to make this more profitable through subsidies as well, and also be willing to pay more money at the grocery store, sorry, everybody that could really help, you know, help our small to midsize agricultural pay, like families. And then I think the other thing, right is figuring out how we can get that these agricultural families additional access. It's not just families, individuals as well. More access to resources. So when we talk to things about things like needing mental health services, health care, well, depending on how much money the farm is bringing in and the size of the farm, they might not be able to afford health insurance. And so people might not be going to the dentist people and that, you know, going to a mental health provider isn't even an option because I cannot afford a copay, even if, you know, I just can't afford it. So figuring out a better approach. So that are really important. Not that everyone's not important, but agricultural, you know, community has access to basic resources is really important.
Jake Hadfield 23:59
Well, Cris, thank you for sharing that I can tell you've had experience in the ag industry, just from your stories and the different things you've said. And so anyway, we really appreciate you coming on and talking with us today. So for our last question, I'm just going to ask if you could tell the ag industry anything or if there were some key things you'd like to share? What are those things to the ag community?
Cris Meier 24:22
Sure. And so this would of course you can tell I'm more of a small and midsize farmer you know, farm and ranch friend. But you know, I think the first thing I want to do is really thank everyone for everything they do for all of us non ag votes like I can't even have a garden I just will kill them all nothing will ever grow. Thank you for making sure my family has food and you know gas and all those things right? So you keep us fed and you protect our land air and water by using evidence based practices. I mean, really, it you are the the ag industry is the foundation of all of our lives. It provides us with those basic Need. So thank you for all you do on behalf of someone who cannot even make little cherry tomatoes live. Okay? I think the second thing is, you know, there are resources out there, if your your family member is struggling with mental health, you know, consider especially when you're in Utah counties, you have your behavioral health authority, I would start with them to see what you can access what's available. Some free mental health clinics are also in some of the rural communities. So please reach out to them, they can identify like, who takes folks who is able to provide, you know, free services, which rural hospitals provide free mental health services, things like that. So there are, you know, there are options available. So please don't feel like just because you don't have insurance, or you know, you're you're hesitant to reach out, please reach out because it really does help economically your family, the well being of your family and yourself overall. But the other thing, too, is that, you know, I'm a social worker, I was a clinical social worker, before I finished my PhD, I was very friendly, we're very friendly people. So please don't hesitate to talk to us, we want to talk to you, and we want to help you if we can and support you. And then I think the final thing is, is if you haven't already talked with your family about succession planning, please start early. And you know, avoid those struggles as you age to, to, you know, identify what's going to happen to this, this land and everything that goes with it, and your home. You know, talk about those things early. So you don't find yourself struggling to figure out what's going to happen with this. This, you know, business you've spent your whole life building, or that you got from your your parents, but you know, to keep talking about it with your kids, and, you know, family members to figure out where it could go, so it's in safe hands. And those are pretty much my three, for you.
Josh Dallin 26:57
Cris, we so much appreciate the thoughts that you've shared, and the emphasis that you've put especially on I love your your thoughts on on economics and making a difference, the reality is, we really do take advantage take for granted, I would say the fact that food prices are the way they are and that we can go and get whatever we want, whenever we want. I mean, it's it really doesn't just magically happen that way. But oftentimes, that magic is at the expense of our producers. And we're so fortunate to never have to be worried about quality of food, or all of those things that you brought up. And I just think it's just I just wanted to put an exclamation mark on that. Because I really do think that stuff that needs to be said and and that really is that economic peace is such a storm cloud above our producers, that never leaves, right. That is That is such a volatile market that affects everything that they do, I was thinking about, you know, everyone today is sending out in my county, it's the first day of school. And I'm thinking about all these pictures, and there's new shoes and backpacks and, and, you know, haircuts and all these things, and that cost money. And you know, our ag producers, they want the same for their kids as we want for ours. But at the end of the day, they've got to have a bottom line that's going to be able to support that. And so I just, again, want to put an exclamation mark on what you've said, because we oftentimes, we just go to the store and we buy it, we don't think about where it comes from and who's generating that.
Cris Meier 28:45
Yeah, and Josh really quick to go with that. I think the other piece that I probably should have mentioned related to what you're saying is the extreme amount of sacrifice that our agricultural families and community makes, right. So when I think about, and this is more my experience in Iowa, but you know, our ag families were not eating the high quality produce and items that they were making, because you know, or they were producing soy and corn, soybeans and corn, which you know, they're using for other things. And, you know, they're making extreme sacrifices to feed their families. And it's not those, you know, high quality food items that we're purchasing because they simply aren't making enough money. You know, it's it's just really that's very problematic when you think about the amount of like, you're talking about haircuts and backpacks and all these things. They're just having to make so many sacrifices to keep their own families going to keep our fruit prices cheap. So, you know, really stopping and thinking, hey, at the farmers market, I think I'm willing to pay that extra $2 For my tomatoes, because I know hopefully this will help the family farm. So just be thinking about that as you're shopping.
Josh Dallin 29:55
I love that. Thank you so much, Cris. And again, we appreciate you sharing your expertise. With us, Cris is such a valuable resource through Utah State University Extension. And I know that anytime that any of us have needed help from her, she's right there and I'm sure for our listeners, if there's anything that has resonated with you and you would like to tap into Cris's information and resources, we'll have that available for you in our in our notes section of our podcast. Again, we're grateful for everybody listening. This has been episode nine of our ag wellness podcast. Again, this is Josh Allen, along with Jake had failed and our special guest Cris Meier, saying See you next time.
Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ag Wellness podcast. Please subscribe, wherever you get your podcasts, visit our website at farmtress.us, and connect with us on social media at Ag Wellness Utah. If you are experiencing stress, mental health concerns, or suicidal thoughts, or if you know someone who is, please contact these resources. As always, if it is an emergency, dial 911.
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Contact the person’s health insurance provider and ask about mental health professionals that are within the network.
Psychology Today Service Finder: On this website, you can search for therapists, psychiatrists, treatment centers and support groups in your area. www.psychologytoday.com/us
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA)
• Here, you can find general information about mental health services in your area.
• findtreatment.samhsa.gov/
Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA)
• At this website, you can find health centers that offer more affordable options for people that do not have health insurance.
• https://findahealthcenter.hrsa.gov/
U.S. Department of Health and Human Services
• This website can help if you have questions about insurance coverage for mental health.
• https://www.hhs.gov/programs/topic-sites/mental-health-parity/mental-health-and-addiction-insurance-help/index.html
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